Betty Greene:

The following direct voice tape recording is that of Edward Butler. He was killed in an accident in the street. This was recorded on the 10th of February 1964, the sitters being Mr. S.G. Woods and Mrs. B. Greene. Medium, Mr. Leslie Flint.

 

Woods:

[We can hear you] quite well.

 

Butler:

Oh...

 

Greene:

Yes.

 

Woods:

Yes, very clear...

 

Greene:

Come along...

 

Butler:

I'm very, uh, interested in all this.

 

Woods:

Yes?

 

Butler:

I'm not quite sure, myself, you know, as to whether I'm being heard proper...properly...

 

Greene:

Yes, we can hear you.

 

Woods:

Oh, yes. We can hear quite well.

 

Butler:

It's always something of an effort, I think, to make contact like this, you know. I have been several times in the past, but, uh, I must say, I still find it very confusing.

 

Woods:

Well, anyway...

 

Butler:

You're Mr. Woods...

 

Woods:

...we're very glad you've come through.

 

Butler:

...and you're Mrs. Greene.

 

Greene:

May we have your name?

 

Butler:

I've heard a lot about you from people on this side who've been coming back, you know. And I said, 'well, one day I hope I'll get a 

chance to have a few words.'

 

Greene:

May we have your name, friend?

 

Butler:

My name is Edward. Ted.

 

Greene:

Ted?

 

Butler:

Ted.

 

Greene:

And what's your surname?

 

Butler:

Pardon?

 

Greene:

What is your surname?

 

Butler:

Oh, my surname?

 

Greene:

Yes.

 

Butler:

My name is Edward Butler, Ted Butler.

​

Greene:

Ted Butler...

 

Butler:

Yes. I've been here now quite a few years, you know. I came here, ooh, 1923 I think it was. Yes, it must have been 1923. Yes it was. 

1923. That's a good few years ago now isn't it?

 

Greene:

Yes.

 

Butler:

Yes. I didn't, uh, have much time for this sort of thing. In fact, I didn't really know anything about it. My old woman, she was inclined to this sort of thing, but, uh, I didn't take too much notice. I just...well, I discarded it as a lot of old women’s talk, you know.

 

Greene:

Mmm.

 

Butler:

She used to go to meetings occasionally. She used to sometimes tell me bits and pieces. 'Ah', I said, 'a lot of rubbish!' And here I am myself, talking to you from here! So I'm placed in the position, you might say, of having to accept the fact, whether I want to or not. But I'm must admit I'm very glad to be able to. I'm very happy here. I can't understand why, now of course, people don't all realise this. And why there's any preju...prejudice about it, I haven't any idea. Because it's the most natural thing to live...live after, what you call, death, you know.

 

Greene:

Mr. Butler, can you tell us...can you tell us how you passed over and how you found yourself?

 

Butler:

Oh yes, I was killed in an accident.

 

Greene:

Oh.

 

Butler:

I was crossing the High Street. On a Saturday it was. I always remember. I'd been out doing a bit of shopping and I was across the road 

and before you knew Jack Robinson* - something hit me. It was some lorry that I think got out of control or something, down the slope. Anyway, it got me pinned against the wall, uh, and I was out! Anyway, I...just remember something coming towards me, and that's all.

 

Greene:

Mmm...

 

Butler:

It all happened so sudden, you know. I've no, sort of...well, I suppose it's as well not to dwell on those things, you know. And I... But the old girl she, naturally at the time, was in a proper state. She got married again some few years after. I don't blame her. Why shouldn't she? I mean, there's not much point...she was not quite...well, she was about 53 or 54 I think she was, May was. And...

 

Greene:

But how did you actually find yourself?

 

Butler:

Eh? Find myself?

 

Greene:

Yes. What sort of conditions?

​

Butler:

Well, I don't know. All I know is, that I saw a crowd of people all standing, looking down at something...and I had a look with the crowd and I looked and saw someone who looked exactly like me!

 

I thought...well, at first I didn't realise it was me. I thought, 'well, that's a coincidence. That fellow looks the same as I do, exactly the same. It might be a twin brother.' And it was me of course. I didn't cotton-on* at the time.

 

And, uh, then I realised that my wife - who was there crying her eyes out, of course - she didn't seem to realise I was standing beside her. She was making such a fuss and how-d'ya-do*, of course, which is all very natural, I suppose, naturally. But she didn't seem to know I was there. I thought, 'well, this is a rum do* this is.'

 

And uh, anyway, they put the body in the ambulance, you know, and the wife got in. And some nurse or some woman was there - I think she must have been a nurse - and I naturally got in with the wife and sat in this ambulance thing...and she didn't seem to realise I was sitting there at all.

 

And gradually it came on me that, that was me lying down there and I was sitting there as right as rain, you might say, but the wife didn't seem to cotton on to the fact I was there. And I went to the hospital and...oh! Then, of course, they put me in a mortuary and I didn't like that at all. I didn't fancy that, so I got out that quick and went home. And the wife was with Mrs. Kitchen next door, trying to comfort her, you know.

 

Greene:

Mmm...

 

Butler:

Oh dear, it was a time. I think that was the worst time of the lot, the first week, I suppose it must have been. Then there was the funeral and all that. Of course, I went to that and I thought to meself at the time, 'well I don't know. There's all this fuss and how-d'ya-do and expense for nothing'.

 

'Cause there I was. I was in the carriage, an horse-drawn carriage the wife had, 'cause she knew my love of horses. They did have motors, but she wanted this horse-drawn I suppose. And I thought, 'it's all very touching', but at the same time it all seemed so damn silly to me, because there I was.

 

Nobody took any notice. The old parson; I knew him of old - not that I ever had anything to do with him. I never went to his church or anything, but when we had our first kid christened we went there. We were married years before that in another district, but anyway...

 

Oh well, he was standing there reciting away, you know and I thought, 'well, I don't know. He should know if anyone knows.' So I went and stood beside him, and kept nudging him with me elbow in the side. He didn't take any notice at all. He just went on with his ritual, you know. And then he, sort of, spoke to the missus and one or two friends and neighbours and that, but...ah, he was off out of it and lifted up his old skirts and off he went. He couldn't care less. I expect he got his little bit.

 

Then there was the gravediggers. I knew one of them, old Tom Corbett. He was a case he was. You'd have many a pint with him and a laugh. He filled in the...with the other bloke, filled in the old coffin and that, the old grave. Huh! I thought, 'well this is a fine how-d'ya-do. I'm not staying down here with this lot,' so I got out of that. I didn't quite know what to do...I was in a proper...sort of thing. I must have hung around my house for weeks I should think...

 

Greene:

Mmm. Go on.

 

Butler:

Once or twice I would go on the old trams and...first I was, sort of, all mixed up. I used to have a laugh too sometimes. I used to think, 'if the corporation knew I was sitting on here and not paying me fare, they'd say something!' But then again, I began to realise that everybody sitting on that tram, for instance, wasn't paying their fare either. Some...some of them had got away with it for years, one way and another.

 

Then, of course, there was one or two there that I met; I remember one of the first real conversations I ever had was with a woman sitting next to me on a tram. And, uh, I thought she seemed very, sort of, nice and that, and she started up a conversation.

 

She...I remember she said something to me, she says, uh, 'What are you doing here?' I thought, 'that's a fine way to open up a conversation.' I said, 'What do you mean, what am I doing here? I might as well be here as anywhere else, if I want to be.' 'Yes', she says, 'I know, I suppose. But you ought to be doing something, not just going up and down in trams and buses and going worrying your wife. You can't do anything that way.' So I says, 'Well', I said, 'it's all very well for you,' I said, 'but where do you go then?' Of course, I realised then that she was dead, you know.

 

I thought, 'well, what's she doing on the same lark as me? If she's dead, she's dead, what...you know'. I said...'Well,' she said, 'as a matter of fact,' she says, 'I've been coming up and down on the trams and the buses with you for some time. Well, you probably never noticed me until just now,' she says. 'But I've been here, waiting for a chance to try and give you a hand.'

And I said, 'Well what can you do?'

 

So she says, 'Well, don't you think it's time you got away and got out of these here conditions? It's only your thoughts that's holding you down. You want to do more than this surely; hanging around the Earth? Nobody takes any notice of you. What's the point of it?' So I said, 'Well, there's some sense in that. It's true, no-one takes any notice. But I find it's...it's...it's...better than, better than...sort of...just sort of...well, not bothering at all. In any case,' I said, 'I don't know of anything else.'

 

So she said, 'Well, that's your fault. It's your state of mind that keeps you down here. If you was to release your thoughts,' she said, 'and think about things of a higher thought and nature, you'd get away from all this.' She said, 'Of course, I understand it's partly due to the way you passed, the suddenness of it, and the thought vibrations (as she called it) of your wife and mother and one or two other people, holds you down and,' she says, 'But you ought to get away from all this.' She says, 'You come with me.'

 

So I says, 'Well, where're we going?' So she says, 'Oh, I'll take you. Don't you worry. 'So I says, 'Well, shall we get off at the next stop?' She says, ''What do you mean, get off at the next stop? It's not necessary to wait and get off at the next stop. We can get off whenever we want to - once you've made up your mind you want to get away from things.' So I says, 'Well, I don't understand that.' So she says, 'You should know by now,' she says, 'that although you can get in a bus, for instance, and sit in the bus and get off at the stop and get on at the picking up place and all that, you don't have to be like that. You don't have to do what everybody else does. You're only doing things out of habit.' She says, 'You've got to get out of some of those habits and realise now that these things aren't important and you can, by the mere thought, you can translate...transmit yourself...transfer yourself', that's it, 'transfer yourself from this condition, like.'

​

So I said, 'Well, I don't know.' So she says, 'Look,' she says, 'here's my hand. You hold my hand, just close your eyes and try not to think of anything in particular. Just make your mind a sort of blank. But don't think of anything material anyway.' So I did as she told me. I found it a bit hard. I don't know how long we must have been on that bus before we got off it, but still...that's neither here nor there is it? Anyway, next thing I knew it was as if I must have lost consciousness or something.

 

The next thing I knew I was sitting in a very nice armchair opposite this lady, in a very nice little parlour. Nice little room it was, you know. Very pretty, very nice. Chintz curtains, there was, at the windows. There was a nice hearth rug on the floor and, uh, although there was a wonderful feeling of lightness and warmth, there was, what I thought, was the sun was shining through the windows.

 

Everything looked spick and span. The table was nicely laid out. Oh, there was everything there that one would want. It was just like as if I had gone somewhere for afternoon tea, you know. I thought, 'Well, I don't know. Where am I now?' The place wasn't familiar to me, although it was very nice. So she said, 'Oh, I've brought you here.' She says, 'You'll realise now,' she says, 'you're in my little home.' I says, 'Oh, that's very nice of you. I don't know what my wife would think of me for sitting in a strange woman's home!'

 

So she said, 'Ah,' she laughed. She says, 'You don't think like that now.' She said, 'That's far away from you.' She says, 'Now we'll have a nice chat and a nice cup of tea and I'll explain things to you,' you see. So I said, 'Well, that's very nice of you dear.' She said, 'Oh, by the way,' she says, 'I'd like you to...to know,' she said, 'that I've been here for, oh, many years. I came here just at the turn of the century.' So I said, 'Oh yes?' So she said, 'Yes.' she says, 'I had a seizure,' she says, 'and I fell down beside the kitchen table. I always remember myself, how it happened. And I must have fallen into unconsciousness,' she says. 'But my dear mother came and fetched me away.'

 

'Anyway,' she says, 'I'm very happy here and I'm living with my mother.' So I said, 'Oh are you?' I says. 'Well where's your mother now then?' 'Oh,' she says, 'She's out.' 'Oh yes' I says. 'Well, how? Does she go to work?' So she says...she laughed. She says, 'Well, yes I suppose you could call it work, but not work in the old way. My mother was a hard-working woman when on Earth, you know. She used to take in washing for people and she was always doing something or other. But now she's very busy. She goes to a place where she looks after the children, because she was always fond of the children. And these children are little children who died in infancy or when they were very young, you know, and she helps to bring them up and helps them look after them, you know. She loves that work. She'll be back soon.'

 

'So,' she says, 'we'll have a cup of tea.' I thought, 'well, this is nice.' I thought, 'well, that's funny, I wonder if I'm going to taste it?' Because when I used to go from...you know, to my wife's place or some place and they're having a cup of tea, I used to think, 'oh, I'd like a cup of tea.' But of course, I couldn't pick up the cups, you see.

 

Greene:

Mmm...

​

Butler:

You know, I suppose I wouldn't have tasted it. But she said, 'Oh you will here.' She said, 'Here, because you're in an entirely different atmosphere,' she said, 'you're in your natural conditions now, so everything around you will be real and natural. Now,' she says, 'you put out your hand and,' she says, 'you'll feel things as real, not like when you was going back to your wife and other places, things didn't seem to have any, sort of, reality.'

 

She says, 'Here you will.' She says, 'You have this cup of tea, dear, and you'll taste it. It'll taste just the same as tea you have on Earth.' So I tasted it, and it was. And she says, 'Well, isn't that nice?' I says, 'Yes, it's very nice,' I says, 'but who'd have thought?' I said. I couldn't help laughing. I said, 'Well who would think that people on Earth would think of us sitting up here having cups of tea. They'd think we were crazy,' you know. So she said, 'Well, of course, that's the point.' She says, 'People just don't understand.'

 

She says, 'Here,' she says, 'according to how you, sort of, got on,' as she put it. She says, 'and as you progress,' she says, 'so you find things there for your needs. If, when you first come, you feel it's necessary to have this or that, it's provided for. But it's only a, sort of, temporary thing until you've adjusted yourself to the fact that you don't need those things,' she says.

 

'Now,' she said, 'I don't normally,' she says, 'now,' she says, 'have tea or anything like that.' She says, 'But since you were a guest in my house and you're getting gradually accustomed to things, I thought it would help you, to be able to make it as natural as possible.' She said, 'But it's only for your benefit.' I said, 'Well, that's very nice of you. You shouldn't have gone to the trouble.' 'Oh no,' she said, 'it's no trouble. It's part of my work.'

 

I said, 'WORK?!' So she says, 'Oh yes,' she says. 'I make a habit,' she says, 'of going down to Earth and if I can help someone that's like you was, Earthbound...' I said, 'What did you say?' 'Earthbound,' she says. I said, 'Earthbound?' She says, 'Yes, that's what you was, poor dear.' She says, 'You was tied down to the Earth because of your state of mind and your thoughts. You couldn't release yourself. And that's a part of my job; to help people release themselves from material things.'

 

'So,' she says, 'I was able to do that.' She said, 'I travelled up and down on that there...on that there bus,' she says, 'and on that tram,' she says, 'many a time with people. Because I used to live in that town years ago.' So I said, 'Oh, did you?' She said, 'Yes,' she says, 'I made it a sort of habit to go back myself in the early stages, the early years,' she said, 'back to the town,' she says. 'And of course, there were many people I knew there and I thought it would be a wonderful thing if I could help those people - especially those who really needed help - from that place, you see. So I'm doing my little bit.' She says, 'Thousands and thousands of people do that, you know, and I'm only one of them.'

 

Greene:

Mmm. Very interesting.

 

Butler:

Yes. Oh, well, of course, I...the funny thing is, I wasn't really a native of that place. I went there I suppose, oh, I must have been about nineteen, to work in a factory there.

 

Greene:

Where's that?

 

Butler:

Leeds, I was talking about. Yes. Oh, it's many years ago now.

 

Woods:

What's it like on your side there?

 

Butler:

Eh?

 

Woods:

What's it like on your side?

​

Butler:

Oh, well, depends on what you're looking at. Because there are so many diversities of places and conditions, you might say, that I could describe so many different conditions and, I suppose, other people would describe something else, which, in a sense, is rather different. But in the main, I suppose if you put it all together - if you could do such a thing - you might say you've got every aspect of scenery and condition of life that you would associate with Earth, only in a...

 

I don't know, I suppose it's like all the beauty of the world - your world - without any of the irritations and the snags and things. There's gorgeous places: lakes and forests and trees and birds; flowers and beautiful light: not harsh. It's a soft and yet beautiful light. It's not...I first of all wondered if it was due to the sun, but I was told since it has nothing to do with the sun at all.

 

It's an illumination that is of natural...natural being, but what its source it is, I really never discovered. Evidently, um, evidently it's something vastly different to the Earth, where you're dependent on the sun and the moon and the stars. We're not dependent on those. It's a world which is so far removed, you might say, from the old idea of things, in some senses.

 

And these laws which affect us all here, are so natural in themselves that there's no injustice. There's a perfect realisation, you might say, of things, which somehow changes us all gradually. But, we live in a harmon...harmonious state of being that is so beautiful because there is no ill will, no bad thinking. Of course, there are on lower spheres, I suppose. As I say, it's all matter of how far you've gone and what you've achieved.

 

But, of course, after a time when I did get settled down, I did go back a few odd times to see the wife. She got married again. I didn't blame her for that. But, um, I don't know, it seemed as if the old Earth didn't mean the same to me. I went once or twice to places and met...or went to see people. Of course, nobody understood. I went once or twice to the Spiritualist place where the wife used to go. She used to talk to me about a little place, down The Cut* it was. But, uh, I didn't think too much to it. I went up the old stairs in this room where they had it. One or two people there that I recognised, but...I once got a message over, of sorts, but, uh, I don't think I was very good at it. It's all very interesting.

 

You know, you are lucky you two are 'cause you've had some - what I've heard of it - a lot of experience. Course, you're bound to come up against some awkward customers. I should imagine the most difficult ones are the religious ones, because they've got so much, sort of, fixed in their minds and take a hell of a lot of shifting, I should think. Give me the man whose mind's open and is not cluttered up with a lot of ideas.

 

'Course, I realise now so much more. I often think; if only I'd understood this I wouldn't have been running around, travelling around in buses and trams and worrying myself, as I was at times. Silly, you might say - all because I was ignorant. You know, that's the trouble with the world - ignorance. If only people weren't ignorant of this here truth, you know, of life and what happens at death. [It would] make a vast difference to an untold number of people, in every shape and form.

 

Because, not only would it make a big difference to the people that come over, but also a big difference to the people who are left behind. I think then everyone would see things differently and they'd understand more and it would change them. It would make different, new people of them...break down all these here daft barriers people have got about colour and religion and...and class and all that nonsense.

 

Oh, it's...I don't know, I'd heard of Utopia as they call it when on Earth. Well, I suppose if there is such a thing as Utopia, this is it, because believe me it really is a world in which there's a full life in every sense. There's no...no feeling of, well, of ill will of any kind. Everyone gets on fine and we're all in harmony and there's great peace and opportunity to do all the things you'd want to do, all the interests you want. It's a wonderful thing, you know, wonderful! Only wish I could convince everyone, [it would] make a vast difference to them all, believe me it would.

 

I think you two are marvellous. The way you go around and the way you try to work and help people and show them the truth. I think you two are highly to be thought of, I do really. I heard about you from a friend of mine, as a matter of fact, who does rescue work. He says 'you want to go and sometime try and get in touch with that Mr. Woods and Mrs. Greene, 'cause they really are doing a good job.'

Not like some of these other people that...well, I won't say. It's not for me to condemn is it? But you're doing a wonderful job. Bless...bless you both. Anyway I can't hold on...'cause I'm not so good at this. I've been two or three times...

​

Woods:

It's very nice of you to...

 

Greene:

...Very nice.

 

Butler:

...but I must say it's the first time I've ever had a real talk. Anyway, God bless you both...

 

Woods:

Thank you for coming through...

 

Butler:

...and carry on the good work and don't get down in the dumps. You can't please everyone. Bound to get some brickbats* you know! Ah! You're a good couple. Bye-bye.

 

Greene:

Thank you Mr. Butler, very, very much.

 

Woods:

Thank you very much for coming through. Thank you.

 

Dr. Marshall:

We let him come because we thought that he would be an illustration of a kind, that would interest and appeal to many. He was just an ordinary hum-drum, you might say, individual when on your side, but whose reaction to life here is remarkable. He's progressed, of course, especially from the time of which he spoke, when he first came over.

 

It is true there are many people who do cling to the Earth and do carry on, sometimes for a very long time, doing very much the same thing as they would have done when on Earth; travelling in buses and on trains; going to theatres and cinemas; visiting homes, people that they used to know; all sorts of mundane things which hold them, because it's the only thing that they seem to be able to understand or appreciate - in spite of the fact that they're completely ignored.

 

You see, until a person's mind is changed and their outlook, it's very difficult for them to be released always from material things. Of course, a large number of people, uh, do leave the Earth immediately at death. But there are people who, for various reasons, are held back by material thoughts, by conditions and all manner of things. That's why if only this truth were understood and accepted, it could save a great deal of unhappiness and many people could see, early on after their passing, the truth and the realisation of life.

 

It would mean less work for many of us here who come to help them and bring them away from Earth conditions. Indeed, one might go on and say that the whole tragedy is that, in life, very few people know in your world about the realities of the spirit. They know so little about life itself. They're so concerned with existing materially that they know nothing or little of the things of vital importance. They know nothing of the things of the spirit; the real life that is the life of continuity; the life that never ceases. Instead of building for the things that are permanent, so many build for the things of the material - which have their moment and are gone.

 

I only wish it were possible for so many other souls that we have in mind to come and talk to you and no doubt some of them will. We want to bring you a varied group of entities, peoples, so that you shall have a very good cross section of humanity and their reactions to life here. Because we do know that you make full use of your recordings and that gives us great pleasure.

 

It's a great joy for us to come to you because we feel that we are achieving something. We feel that we're not, in a sense, wasting our time, which so often we have done and do with others. I know it is an important thing to give the personal proof and the evidence and the comfort to the individual, but so many people, once they've received that, do nothing else. They don't do anything to forward the truth and to help others. You are doing a real work and it's a great pleasure and a great joy to come to you. It's been very nice this morning, particularly, because I feel that, um, in letting our friend through we've probably introduced an interesting character, an interesting experience for many and I know you'll make full use of it.

​

Woods:

We shall make full use of it. I can assure you of that.

 

Dr. Marshall:

My blessing to both of you.

 

Greene:

Dr. Marshall can you hold on a minute?

 

Dr. Marshall:

I will, yes.

 

Greene:

Can you give me any idea of who I can take your information about the cancer cure to - because I'm so anxious to help your wife over this as well, you see?

 

Dr. Marshall:

I appreciate your...very kind...

 

Greene:

Can you give me any idea of who I could take it to who would be interested?

 

Dr. Marshall:

I don't think I could. For the simple reason that I don't think anyone is going to be interested who might be able to help. They weren't interested during my Earthly lifetime, they would not listen and had no interest shown whatsoever. I think it's less likely even now. I know everyone is very anxious to help in this respect, but we can only hope and pray.

 

We are endeavouring to assist in anyway we can, but...I'm afraid I cannot give you any names of who to go to. I think it would be a fruitless effort on your part, but I appreciate the kindliness and the thought.

 

Thank you, my dear, I must go. Goodbye.

 

Greene:

Goodbye Dr Marshall.

 

Woods:

Thank you Dr Marshall.

 

Mickey:

Goodbye.

 

Alfred Scarfe:

The second speaker that you heard from the world of spirit, was a guide to the circle Dr Marshall.

Dr Marshall, when on Earth lived at Southend-on-Sea and passed* into the Spirit world, I do not know quite when, but not so very long ago. I wrote to Mrs Marshall* regarding the cancer cure, asking if I could help her to place this valuable information in the right quarter. But this [is going] to Scotland, so she told me, and when it came back to her, if they had done nothing with it, then I would be given the opportunity to see what I could do.

 

But Mrs Marshall also passed on about a fortnight or three weeks after that. So this cancer cure, which was known when Dr Marshall was on Earth, has not been brought into being as a helpful cure for those who suffer from cancer.