George Woods:

We took this [recording] on Battle of Britain day and all the aeroplanes were going overhead like crazy that day…making noises everywhere, so you’ll get the - you’ll hear the aeroplanes going over…

 

Woods:

Good morning.

 

Rupert Brooke:

I’m not quite sure if you can hear me or not ?

 

Betty Greene:

Yes.

 

Woods:

Yes, I can hear you quite well.

 

Brooke:

My name is Brooke.

 

Woods:

Brooke ? Oh yes.

 

Brooke:

Rupert Brooke.

 

Greene:

Oh how lovely.

 

Woods:

Yes.

 

Greene:

Yes.

 

Brooke:

This is rather an experience for me, but, as far as I…no, I…

​

Greene:

Yes.

 

[Sound of aircraft heard overhead]

 

Brooke:

I’m so sorry. I’m afraid I’m making an awful mess of this.

 

Woods:

Oh no, you're not.

 

Greene:

No.

 

[All talking together]

 

Greene:

...plenty of time, you’re alright.

 

Brooke:

It’s been suggested to me that it might be interesting if I, could make a contact. I really, in a sense, don’t quite know - what I can do or in what way I could possibly be any service. I feel rather a novice in all this.

 

Greene:

Well shall I tell you and in fact it might help you ? We’d like to know how you passed over, how, you know, how you found yourself. We’d like to know if you could describe your particular plane and, what your - what kind of work you’re doing now, you see ?

That is - if that helps you at all ?

 

Brooke:

Well, yes it does in a kind of way. But I find it extremely difficult as a matter of fact. When I’m trying to speak in this fashion, I don’t think clearly. I think that’s possibly, something which applies to most people. As far as I can gather it does. I was told it’d be very difficult to do and to think clearly.

 

I should imagine once one has become rather used to this - that is, sort of tuning in as it were to your vibration and sort of becoming more expert at sort of speaking, one can then sort of think more clearly and bring ones mind to bear on things which are of importance. But quite frankly, I feel rather at sea.

 

I sort of feel as if I’m neither in one world or the other. But I’m conscious of speaking to you and I’m conscious of your reciprocating and speaking back. I can sense and also sometimes hear. It’s very confusing, in fact it’s almost impossible to know whether I’m hearing what you say or whether I’m sort of, in a kind of way, conscious of your thoughts. Actually I find this thing most peculiar. I’m sorry I’m a awful bind. Not much good at it at the moment.

​

Greene:

Come along.

 

Brooke:

…since I’ve been here, that is, I’ve made a point of working, to a great extent, especially during the war years helping fellows over who - who passed during the recent war. And it’s been my job to act in the capacity of, I suppose you’d call it a rescue squad or team. As a matter of fact I’ve learned a great deal from fellows who’ve come over in recent years, through the war.

 

In fact I was working so closely in combination with others who themselves had passed over, during the recent war, that I was almost, as it were, one of them in as much that I think, at least when I’ve been down onto the Earth plane to help these people, I think on their level. I’ve even got into the habit of using terminology which was quite foreign to me in my day. I mean for instance, words which I didn’t even know the meaning at first. I realise now are common language. In fact I find there are many new words in the language which, the English language, which never existed in my day.

 

How I wonder what I might have done with a vocabulary such as the English seem to have adopted since my passing, what I might have done with it from the way of verse and so on…

 

[Betty Greene asked Mr Brooke how he passed over…]

 

Brooke:

Well, I came over during the first world war.

 

Greene:

Yes.

​

Brooke:

It was all very sudden. I don’t remember very much about it, excepting that I suddenly found myself in a kind of…well I really wouldn’t even know how to describe it. It seemed as if I was in, in a body which no longer seemed at first to be the same. And yet in appearance it was the same I believe. But I just couldn’t understand it. I just couldn’t realise that I’d died. Everything seemed in a sense quite natural. And yet the body I was using seemed to be foreign to me. In as much that I didn’t feel it had any weight. Which worried me for quite a bit.

 

When you’ve been used to a body that had weight and substance, to find yourself in a body that seemed to have no weight - and in a sense no substance anyway, seemed to me most strange. There was a terrible lightness about myself, which worried and puzzled me very much at first. In fact I think it worried me too much. I realise now ideally I shouldn’t have perhaps - because I was too sensitive perhaps, I don’t know, but this awful feeling of a terrific lightness. And yet if I touched myself I was solid and yet if I pinched myself I didn’t feel it.

 

It worried me terribly. In fact one of the first things I did I think, if I remember rightly, was, when I became conscious of the fact that I was no longer on your side and yet I had a body which in certain respects was identical in appearance, that is to the old body and I thought, well ‘am I or am I not, alive’ in the same sense as I knew myself to be alive when on Earth ? I pinched myself and I was startled to find that I didn’t feel anything and it worried me terribly. I thought well this body of mine, this peculiar thing, which is a body and to all outward appearances doesn’t seem to respond in quite the same way.

 

And I thought to myself, ‘why should it ?’ It obviously isn’t the same old body, it’s a different body. It must be composed of different substances, and yet I was still, as it were, on the Earth, that is, conscious of the Earth. And then of course I had one or two shocks, when I realised people didn’t see me, and I thought well if I can’t feel myself when I pinch myself, why should the person see me - because he’s obviously still on Earth in the old body.

 

And I began to realise there was a vast difference between the bodies in consequence, and I thought well it must be that I’m on some vibrational rate or something which is not common to the Earth and therefore people can’t see me. It's what had been annoying and irritating me so terribly long. I can see other people and they couldn’t see me. It all seemed so strange and erm…I remember vividly sitting beside a river and looking at myself and not seeing myself - that worried me terribly.

 

[unintelligible]…a river I was very fond of in my youth. I remember sitting and looking into this river and I could see no reflection. and I thought, well that seems most extraordinary. I have a body and yet it has no reflection. I’m afraid I was in an awful mess mentally. I couldn't adjust myself at all. Hence I was going round to various people that I had known, trying to tell them that I was alive and well, and not to worry about me and they just didn't realise I was there and when I realised I couldn’t be seen even in the water, in the river, I realised then that the reason they couldn't see me was because if my body didn't have a reflection, then it couldn't be solid to them. It couldn't be on the same vibration: it couldn't be the same sort of matter. It obviously was different and I had to adjust myself to the fact that I had a body that was to all outward appearances the same, and yet obviously was not a real body from the point of view of Earth.

 

Therefore I was in what is, I suppose one would term, a spiritual body, and yet I thought, well I’m not particularly spiritual. I was so puzzled, so bewildered. here was I clinging to the Earth as it were in my thoughts in my memory of things past and trying to catch up with things too. In fact I was trying to do so many different things at the same time and doing nothing well.

It felt most irritating and most puzzling.

 

I remember I was sitting beside this river getting more and more puzzled, and not a little frightened as a matter of fact, wondering what the next step was going to be when all of a sudden I was conscious of someone standing beside me. And I looked and yet I could see no one. Yet I knew there was someone there. And I thought this is ridiculous and I looked into the river and there was no reflection and I just didn’t know what to do. Then all of a sudden, it was just as if I distinctly, as I did I realise now, I heard a voice say: 'Come with me.' and I thought, ‘Well how the deuce can I go with someone when I can't see them? I don't know where they are going, and I don't know who they are.'

 

And three times this voice was saying,

"Come with me. Close your eyes." and I thought, nothing ventured, nothing done. I can’t do much else, then I’ll just close my eyes…

​

The next thing I knew was that I was in an entirely different place - what appeared to be a vast building, not unlike I suppose the appearance to concert hall, in as much that there were seats, many, many seats, and many, many people were gathered there and I was sitting in this place and I could hear beautiful music, it was simply wonderful sound. I can’t even depict it or describe it - and it seemed to, I don’t know, vibrate in such a way that it seemed to carry me, beyond time and space. It seemed to have a message which I interpreted as being one of peace and quietitude and rest, not to be unduly worried or concerned. In other words, I seemed to get from this place - this music, a wonderful feeling of being at peace and in consequence, I felt very different and much more calm. And gradually I began to perceive, in the far distance, what appeared to be an enormous panorama of changing light. I seem to have to describe it as all kinds of colours, but they were constantly changing from the palest shades into deep hues and gradually the whole room, the whole building, seemed to be suffused with this. And I was wondering how this was achieved.

 

It was - it was almost as if I was seeing something thrown onto a cinematograph screen or something. It was - the whole of the building gradually seemed to be illumined and changed with this colour. And although I could see it all around me I didn’t seem somehow, although I felt one with them, I didn’t seem as if I could speak. In fact I was so disturbed - had been so disturbed in my mind previously, about my body as to what function it had and if it was really like the Earth body, which it seemed in a sense, but I wasn’t sure about it. I didn’t really didn’t know how to go about things I suppose then, but I wanted to speak to someone, and yet I was afraid almost to try to enunciate words. Anyway, I was - became very conscious of someone near me saying,

"You can do it. Don't worry. You can do it. Don’t worry," and I heard myself saying: 'What is this place? What is this place ?'

 

And I was - heard in return a voice say,

"This is a place where you can be brought into new being. Here the vibrations will make possible for you a new way of life. This is a cleansing station."

I couldn’t understand what that meant by a cleansing station. It sounds a most odd term. This seemed far from anything that one could imagine. A Cleansing station, if one can imagine what a cleansing station should be like. This seemed to me like some vast auditorium like an Albert Hall, for instance, only much vaster and much more beautiful of course. Well there was glorious sound, music going on and illumination and people.

 

Then I suddenly realised that there was a change coming over me. [Aircraft radio interference]

I’d been almost conscious of it from the beginning and the people around and about me, I could feel, they too were changing in some subtle way. And yet I couldn't explain it. Even now I don’t really know how to explain it. But it suddenly seemed as if my whole body was becoming suffused with some charged power, some vi-vitality, and everything seemed to become very much more solidified. It’s the only way I can put it. It rather sounds silly but it did seem so to me that everything around and about me, which of course had been, to all outward appearances, seemed as very real - that is I could see people I could see things I could see the vastness of the building, and the beauty of it, and the colour and everything .

 

But somehow previously it had all seemed so unreal it was too wonderful to be true I couldn’t understand it and yet I appreciated it and it had a wonderful peaceful effect on me. But it gradually seemed to become much more real, much more intense. The people seemed to, where they had been sitting very calm and very still, they seemed now to become a little animated. In other words they began to move a little and one became conscious of something happening within oneself and within the people around and about one and after a very short time, or so it seemed to me, one or two people began to move, get up and walk about and to begin to what appeared to be speak - at least their mouths opened and closed, although I couldn’t hear what was issuing from them.

 

And yet I was conscious of the fact that they were trying to convey their thoughts in an audible manner. And it seemed to me that these various people were beginning to become alive. I don’t want to suggest that in the beginning they looked as if they were dead people, they weren’t exactly that at all. But I realise now that we were all, completely unused to these bodies obviously, we had recently passed, and we had been brought to this place, and we were beginning... [sound of dog barking] ...as it were to be shown how to experience the new life. We were being prepared we were being, as it were, initiated if you like. And then there were, after this, when the place seemed to be more vital more alive - that is from the point of view of the people moving and walking about and so on - I saw, as I suppose others must have seen too, what appeared to be figures, people who had not previously been there by the way, or at least had not been apparent.

​

They seemed to become visible from all different places, some were male and some were female. Some of the women went over to other women sitting in the auditorium and some of the men went to some of the men. Most of the people seemed to be very beautiful. I don’t remember seeing one that hadn’t got a very beautiful expression on his face. They were not necessarily always strictly handsome, that is from the point of view of features and so on, but their faces seemed to illuminated and had great animation, great charm, great dignity too - and I realised of course much later, afterwards, that these were people whose job it was to conduct these sort of initiations services, if you like to put it like that... [sounds of aircraft overhead] ...and things like that to help people who, when they came over, had need for this gradual rehabilitation to a new life - and possibly, it seems to me now, had no particular relation or friend over there to meet them.

 

Oh very often I understand there are many relations and friends who gather there waiting for this sort of service to finish and then they make themselves known but it seems to me the shock of sudden death means that many people need gradually revitalising in the spiritual sense. They need to, as it were to be cleansed as it were, is the best way to put it - of their old ideas and thoughts. They need to readjust their thinking and this is a method that is used in certain cases and certain peoples. It isn’t used for everyone evidently - I found that out afterwards, but anyway, it was an extraordinary experience and one which I shall never forget because it was a very beautiful and very wonderful experience and has certainly helped me tremendously.

 

[After I had] spoken to several people, whose task it was evidently to help one over, I was taken to what appeared to be a park. Although I realise it isn’t a park exactly now but appeared to me then as a park. In this park I saw many people in many types of costume. And I realised that this place was the outside of this building, and erm, after this initiation service - or call it what you will, we carried on outside in this beautiful park and strolled around, and one felt then that one's body was a reality. That’s the only way I can describe it. I realised that my body was then functioning in harmony with my thoughts. In other words it was a reality to me and I could move about and I could walk about. I could run, I could even swim, which I did.

 

And erm, I remember sitting under a tree and talking to one particular person who I found out later was own particular helper. And he explained to me that all that had transpired was very essential, because owing to the conditions of my passing in particular and my particular nature and my particular outlook, it had been essential to cast from myself completely, all material and physical thought appertaining to the war and the terrible conditions under which I had been existing - in other words I had to see brightness and the beauty and the realisation of greater things yet to come. I had to completely, as it were, free myself of old thinking, old ideas. And this had helped me tremendously.

 

And I asked particularly if it were possible here to, for instance, continue writing and so on, and he said,

"Of course you can do that if you wish. And you can, if you want, do other things. If you want to, for instance, if you want to become a painter or musician there’s nothing to stop you. In fact you can do exactly what you feel inclined to do. In fact that's the only way you can progress on this side, is to go forward in the manner in which you yourself have made possible by your thinking and your action."

 

And in consequence I realised that I could if I wanted, do many things, but I felt if only I could depict some of these experiences in such a way that I could send them back to Earth, it would be such an interesting thing and be such a great help. And I asked if it were possible, and they said well, it would be possible, but it wouldn’t be possible for some considerable time, for various reasons. One thing I was still an initiate, I was still new and finding everything very strange, I wouldn’t be able to adjust myself so quickly - so easily to be able to do a thing like that and then of course the most obvious thing would be the difficulty in finding someone who could act as an instrument. I didn’t even realise then that you had to have a Medium. Although I’d had this unpleasant experience when I first left Earth and trying to contact people that I’d not seen. I thought somehow there must be a way. I’d vaguely heard of Spiritualism on Earth, and I never had any interest in it, in fact I had no interest really - I thought it was probably a lot of nonsense. But I suddenly wanted to tell the world - the Earth world - of all this, I want them to know of it. I didn’t know how to go about it and I was so keen, so anxious even then, at those early stages, to do something.

​

This man smiled and said,

"Well of course most people when they first come here are like that. They want to rush back to their friends and their relations. They want to tell everyone in the world how wonderful it all is in passing from your world to this. It’s the most natural process. There’s no need for all the terrible fear that people have in their being, about dying. In fact everything is so orderly really. It’s just that the confusion that man brings with him that creates the difficulty. If man had a clear picture of things before he died, there wouldn’t be the confusion that people have, such as you had, for instance, when you were held, as it were, close to the Earth."

 

He told me,

"When you found people didn’t realise you were there and you looked into the water and couldn’t see your reflection. All these things now really do alter the state of man’s mind on passing, their old ideas, old thoughts which haunt him - which make you full of fear. Whereas man should be free and man should realise these things, and this is natural law - that God has created man in his own image and in consequence is indestructible. Only the material and physical aspect of life is destructible in itself, but you, the real spirit of man, goes on. Of course everyone feels like you feel. You want to rush back and tell the world, but you must remember that the old world has been going on for centuries and centuries. Living enigmas, building up all kinds of barriers, making all sorts of weird religions and superstitions and in consequence make it impossible to have knowledge and experience. Whereas they could have it, if they had their minds clearly set on things of Spirit and do not debase everything in the material sense. Even the highest, noblest thoughts, man oft times debases."

 

All this, of course I realised very well, but I just didn’t know how one could go about it and he said,

"Well don't worry about it. Time will pass and the time may come when you can go back and you can be of some service."

But I felt terribly eager. But I had to realise that I had much to learn and the time was not yet right for me to go back.

And here I am now after, oh I don’t know, probably forty years I suppose, talking to you. And it all seems so strange yet so wonderful. I’m afraid haven’t really said very much…

 

Woods:

Thank you. What sort of clothes do you wear that side ?

 

Brooke:

Well I find that the clothes I like best and I only speak for myself, I like, I suppose the nearest I could describe it, is something like the ancient Greeks wore. It's very, very comfortable, very attractive to look at, and the materials are very beautiful.

 

Woods:

Very colourful ?

​

Brooke:

Oh, very. But of course, there again it’s a matter of, not altogether yourself. I mean, one likes to feel that one wears the things what one would like to wear, which is true in essence. But the point is that there are certain colours for instance which you couldn't possibly wear unless you yourself, by your very nature, and your very soul as it were, made it possible; because we are often known in temperament and in character by the colouring of our apparel.

 

Not only... you see the point is, that we know each other by - by the very illumination and light around and about us. For instance, if certain colours were in your aura, there may be other colours that you couldn't wear in your dress, or in your appearance, in your wearing apparel. You see the whole point is that certain things just couldn't be.

 

I mean if, for instance, you hadn’t progressed very far, you wouldn't be able to wear very soft clear blue for instance, because it wouldn't be in your make-up and nature. You wouldn't have made it possible for yourself to have that colour in your auric emanation, and, in consequence, you wouldn't wear it in your wearing apparel. For one thing you wouldn't be attracted to it because you weren't ready for it, shall we say, and secondly it just wouldn't be possible. I don't know how to explain why it wouldn't be possible, it wouldn’t. The whole thing is that somehow, automatically almost, you are what you are…

 

Woods:

Yes.

 

Brooke:

…and you cannot be beyond that or less than that, in a sense. I mean, you see we all go forward. We all strive in some shape or form and develop accordingly; and in consequence we are automatically as we are by our very endeavour; and it would be most unnatural for one to assume over here a façade, which you yourself would know within yourself would deceive no one.

 

'In other words, whereas on Earth a man may build up a façade, may build up something about himself which gives the wrong impression to others, people may say, oh, so and so’s an awfully nice person, but actually the person underneath may be the ghastly person. That sort of thing you can do on your side, but you can't do here. It’s one of the first things you realise as a matter of fact, and it’s quite a shock I can assure you. Here there’s no deceit of any description. Here you are known for what you are and…

 

[coughing begins]

I’m sorry

 

Greene:

[unintelligible]…you were just saying…[unintelligible]…to be able talk to us like this. Well perhaps it’ll make you very happy to know…[loud coughing]…that tonight, your voice and what you’ve been telling us, will be heard by quite a number of Earth people.

 

Brooke:

Oh I say kindly, I’m very happy to know that. I only wish to goodness now, that you’d have told me that. I’d have said something much more valuable. Because I do realise that there’s so much that one can say or should say. And of course this is my first sort of attempt at making direct contact in this fashion, and in consequence I find it extremely difficult really. But no doubt if I can, I may come back later. I’ll do my best.

 

Greene:

I would like to ask you one thing. When you, erm, were writing your verse on - when you were on the Earth plane, did you think you were impressed ? And have you since met anybody who did impress you in your work ?

 

Brooke:

Oh yes, my goodness.

 

Greene:

You have ? Who did that ?

 

Brooke:

I realise now that when I was on Earth, I was really in a sense an instrument or a Medium. That doesn’t mean to say that I hadn’t got my own ability of course. I’d hate to - I think anyone would hate to feel that they’re just an automatic machine churning out stuff from other people.

 

Greene:

Oh, somebody I know ?

 

Brooke:

I mean, I did have my own ability naturally. But erm, I realise that I did draw or attract to myself - and that some of them were my actual helpers and guides, from this side of life - Byron and Shelley and Keats.

 

Greene:

Oh how lovely.

 

Brooke:

They are my greatest friends. But I must come again sometime and talk to you. I must go, I’m told the power wanes. But it’s been wonderful and I do hope I haven’t been long - too long ?

 

Greene:

Well thank you for your very lovely talk.

 

Brooke:

Anyway, God bless you and goodbye.

 

Greene:

Thank you.

 

Mickey:

Bye bye.

 

Greene:

Bye bye Mickey.

 

Woods:

Thank you Mickey.