Swift:

Ye be a judge?

 

Greene:

Judge?

 

Swift:

Ye be a judge?

 

Greene:

No.

 

Swift:

Aye. He looks like a crusty old judge!

 

Greene:

No.

 

Woods:

No. No, no. We're not...like that.

 

Greene:

We're not judges, no...

 

Swift:

Oh, the Bailey*

*the Bailey = The Old Bailey courthouse in London

Woods:

We don't believe in hanging at all.

 

Swift:

Argh!

 

Greene:

Jack how did you find yourself when you died, when you were on the other side?

 

Swift:

Aye... dead as mutton.

 

Greene:

You were dead as mutton on the other side?

 

Swift:

Dead as mutton!

 

Greene:

I know you weren't.

 

Swift:

No, that's what they think...

 

Greene:

Yes.

 

Swift:

...that when you're dead, you're dead as mutton.

 

Greene:

You're not!

 

Swift:

I'm like a spring lamb... born again...

 

Greene:

Well, what happened to you when you found... when you did eventually get over on the other side?

 

Swift:

Ye talk different to me.

​

Greene:

I talk different to you? Well I don't know, um...

 

Swift:

Ye be English?

 

Greene:

Yes of course. I'm English, so are you.

 

Swift:

Aye.

 

Greene:

You talk English.

 

Woods:

Were you one of the highway men? On a horse, did you ride?

 

Swift:

Aye.

 

Greene:

I thought he was, yes.

 

[Sound from microphone]

 

Woods:

Yes he is.

 

Greene:

I have a feeling he was.

 

Swift: [Singing]

De-di-dum-de-diddle-di-die...

 

Greene:

Jack, were you a highwayman?

 

Swift:

Yes, I was what you call 'a man of the road'.

 

Greene:

That's right.

 

Swift:

Aye.

 

Woods:

Did you ride a horse?

 

Swift:

Aye.

​

Woods:

Did you ride a horse?

 

Swift:

Aye.

 

Greene:

Yes.

 

Swift:

Aye, often times.

 

Woods:

Yes.

 

Greene:

And did you...

 

Swift:

Many is the time I...

 

Greene:

Did you hold up coaches?

 

Swift:

Aye.

 

Greene:

You stopped them with “Your money or your life” sort of business?

 

Swift:

I didn't kill many men.

 

Greene:

No. Well Jack, what are you doing on that side now?

 

Swift:

I be a good man now.

 

Greene:
You're a good man.

 

Swift:

I was not a bad...

In poverty.

​

Woods:

Poverty, yes...

 

Greene:

Mmm...

 

Swift:

Poverty. Many, many people, no food.

 

Woods:

You robbed the rich to give to the poor?

 

Swift: [Singing]

Do-de-dum, de-dum-de-do, diddle-de, diddle-de do. I be a highwayman, do!

 

Greene:

Now...

 

Swift: [Singing]

Up and down the road we go, up and down, to and fro...

 

Greene:

Jack, who helped you on the other side? What did you do when you found yourself on the other side?

 

Swift:

I was in Newgate*.

 

*Newgate = an old prison in London

​

Greene:

Pardon?

 

Swift:

Newgate. New gate.

 

Greene:

Oh, you went to Newgate prison?

 

Swift:

Aye. Old Trueman... here. Aye...'Burn.. the Burn*

 

*the Burn (Tyburn) = place of execution in London.

Woods:

Have you met the judge that sent you to the gallows?

 

Swift:

Aye. He's a rascal!

I be alright now.

​

Greene:

What are you doing now Jack?

 

Swift:

Doing? A pot of ale!

 

Greene:

Mmm?

 

Swift:

A pot of ale.

 

Greene:

What did he say?

 

Woods: [Unintelligible]

 

Swift:

Aye, at Tewkesbury...

 

Woods:

Tooks-bree?

 

Swift:

Aye.

 

Greene:

Tewkesbury. Is that where they caught you?

 

Swift:

On the Bath... on the Bath Road.

 

Greene:

Oh yes

.

Swift: [Singing]

 

Greene: [Whispering to George]

 

Woods:

Sorry?

 

Greene:

He can't forget his little highwayman song.

 

Swift:

There two men sat on the bench, the silly old stupid...!

​

Greene: [Laughing]

 

Woods:

What did he say?

 

Greene:

He's talking about the judge...

 

Woods:

Oh.

 

Greene: [Unintelligible]

 

Swift:

I... I've not been back here... I haven't been back here for many a year.

 

Greene:

You have Jack?

 

Swift:

I haven't been back here...

 

Greene:

Haven't you?

 

Swift:

...for many a year.

 

Greene:

No? Well Jack, can't you tell us something...

 

Swift:

I'm very much, very much happier here.

 

Greene:

Can't you tell us what you're doing on the other... on your side now? How you're living?

 

Swift:

I'm living with my mother...

 

Greene:

Yes?

 

Swift:

...and my brother... and my sister.

​

Greene:

Good.

 

[Short silence]

 

Swift: [Singing]

...the cards... the cards and dice... everything's fine...

 

Woods:

Can you speak a little bit louder, friend?

 

Swift:

Aye, you're like a judge!

 

Greene:

You're like a judge, he said.

 

Woods:

Am I? Well, I don't... don't wish to be.

 

Swift:

Aye... aye...

 

Greene:

If we can't hear him, [I'll get] Mickey to explain.

I think he'll go off and somebody else will come in...

 

Marshall:

I'm afraid our friend is not yet able to make a sensible, from your point of view, communication.

 

Greene:

Hello Dr Marshall.

 

Marshall:

But we have been trying to help him.

 

Greene:

Yes.

 

Marshall:

Although he's not exactly a bad person, he's not very progressed really. For some reason, just recently, he seems to have been very near the Earth. Although, evidently, for quite a long time he was free of it. But something or other, I don't quite know what, seems to have drawn him back.

 

I'm afraid he's not going to be, from your point of view, a good communicator. But nevertheless, no doubt, in a way rather interesting.

​

Greene:

Yes.

 

Marshall:

He reverts back to his old self, as indeed so many people do when they come back and contact. Which in a way I suppose from the point of view of evidential value, particularly where relationships are concerned, is very important and necessary.

 

Greene:

Yes.

 

Marshall:

But, um... I think he's more progress than perhaps the impression he's given you. He's not a bad character... unfortunate character of course, who evidently took to the road, through poverty - I won't say necessity, in a sense. But like so many people of that day and age, there was so much terrible, terrible poverty that they hadn't much choice, in a sense, but to steal and...

Anyway, he's not a bad man...

 

Greene:

No, I don't think he is Doctor Marshall.

 

Marshall:

How are you George?

 

Woods:

Oh, I'm very well Doctor Marshall.

 

Marshall:

Betty?

 

Greene:

Yes Doctor Marshall, I'm very well indeed thank you.

 

Marshall:

Good.

 

Greene:

I hear you were talking to some friends of ours the other night.

 

Marshall:

Oh, well I do go around a bit you know.

 

Greene:

Yes, yes. They have our tapes.

​

Marshall:

Just a moment...

 

[Brief silence]

 

Joseph:

We are...

 

Greene:

Hello?

 

Joseph:

...very distressed...

 

Greene:

Very distressed?

 

Joseph:

...the present situation in your world.

 

Greene:

Yes?

 

Joseph:

We are doing everything in our power. But nevertheless, in spite of all our efforts, owing to man having free will to choose for himself, we can do very little. While those in high places, by their attitude of mind and determination, make it almost impossible for us to guide them in the way in which we would like to see them go.

 

The leaders of nations, no doubt, fundamentally and deep-rooted inside, desire that which is good. But politically they allow themselves to be caught up in such a way that they cannot extricate themselves very easily.

 

The present situation in your world is so distressing and we are so anxious to alleviate the pain and suffering. If you could see, as we do, the innumerable souls that are sent here, unprepared, unready; innocent men, women and children - not only of one race, but other... several races, several nations.

 

This is a distressing terrible thing. There are many souls from this side, who are endeavouring to help as best they may, as best they can. And all we can do is infiltrate our thought, to the best of our ability, to try and ease the situation and perhaps, eventually, bring it to some conclusion.

 

But I regret to say, there are those who are determined to continue this terrible war*. We have been constantly urging, constantly endeavouring to impress and inspire, but it is very difficult.

 

*war = possibly the Vietnam conflict 

 

I know that you are both most anxious in your work to enlighten others, to bring them this truth of survival after bodily death. And if only humanity could realise and appreciate and understand this - even if only in part - so changed could be the world, and the attitude of men, one to another.

 

But we know of the many manifold difficulties, but nevertheless, we continue to strive. Do that which you can. Continue with that work, which you so long ago started and know that we are endeavouring at all times to help you and to assist you.

 

Do not become despondent. There are times when naturally we too, particularly on certain issues, become very despondent - and yet the power of the spirit is great and who knows, if that power may so generate itself in the hearts and minds of men in high places, that sooner or later there will be a change of heart, change in realisation and understanding.

 

We never cease, on your part, to be of service.

​

Woods:

Well thank you.

 

Greene:

Thank you very much.

 

Woods:

What a terrible war that is... [unintelligible]

 

Joseph:

Completely. As indeed are all wars unnecessary.

 

Woods:
I know.

 

Joseph:

But there is no justification for this, none whatsoever. While there is dire need and poverty, there will always be those who will try to break the bonds and the shackles. These things cannot be solved by bloodshed...

 

Woods:

No.

 

Joseph:

...but only by tolerance and love and understanding.

 

Woods:

Thats right.

​

Joseph:

Bless you my friends.

 

Greene:

Thank you.

 

Woods:

Thank you very, very much.

 

Joseph:

My name is Joseph.

My name is Joseph.

​

Woods:

Oh, good.

 

Greene:

Joseph?

 

Woods:

Thank you.

 

Greene:

Thank you very much indeed.

 

Joseph:

Brother Joseph.

 

Woods:

Brother Joseph.

 

Greene:

Brother Joseph, oh yes.

 

Joseph:

Bless you my children.

 

Woods:

Oh, I hope you'll come through again.

 

Joseph:

I shall do what I can, as best I may.

 

Woods:

Thank you.

 

Joseph:

May the peace and the love of the Holy Spirit be with you my children. Farewell.

 

Woods:

Thank you.

 

Greene:

Thank you very much.

 

Pankhurst:

Well, this is the time, isn't it?

​

Woods:

Oh!

 

Greene:

Hello!

 

Woods:

Hello. So nice of you...

 

Greene:

I recognise that voice.

 

Pankhurst:

You recognise my voice? But I've never been here before.

 

Greene:

Haven't you...

 

Pankhurst:

My name is Pankhurst.

 

Woods:

Oh!

 

Greene:

Oh! Hello Mrs Pankhurst.

 

Pankhurst:

There seems to be so much interest at the moment centred on my thought... my mind.

 

Greene:

Yes?

 

Woods:

Oh yes, it's nice of you to come through.

 

Pankhurst:

It's as if somehow there is some special significance.

 

Woods:

Yes.

 

Pankhurst:

It seems to have attracted my thought-force and brought me near to you.

​

Greene:

There was a programme about you the other day Mrs Pankhurst.

 

Pankhurst:

Oh?

 

Greene:

The television people did a programme about you.

 

Pankhurst:

Well, I hope women have got their rightful place by now...

 

Greene:

They have.

 

Pankhurst:

...and are doing some useful service and work with it.

 

Woods:

Oh they are...

 

Pankhurst:

We fought hard enough for it.

 

Woods:

You did.

 

Pankhurst:

But knowing men I doubt if they've got the freedom they would like.

 

Greene:

Not entirely, no.

 

Pankhurst:

No.

 

Woods:

No, but, uh...they are getting it and they will get it.

 

Pankhurst:

Well, we got the vote.

 

Woods:

Yes.

 

Greene:

Yes we did!

 

Woods:

Well that's a great thing.

 

Pankhurst:

But whether men will give us complete freedom to think and do as we would like...

​

Woods:

Well I think...

 

Pankhurst:

Knowing men I'm highly suspicious!

 

Greene: [Laughing]

 

Flint:

Huh!

 

Woods:

Well, I think you should have your freedom. I think you... in fact, from what I've seen of some of the, uh...

 

Pankhurst:

Well I think if women had control more in your world, you wouldn't have the present situations in which you find yourself.

 

Woods:

I quite agree with you.

 

Greene:

They are... [unintelligible]

 

Pankhurst:

Men are the ones who create the havoc and the wars.

 

Greene:

That's right.

 

Woods:

Yes, quite right.

 

Pankhurst:

If [it were] left to the women there would not be wars.

 

Woods:

No.

 

Greene:

What are you doing now Mrs Pankhurst, in the...

 

Pankhurst:

Trying to influence people over here.

​

Greene:

Are you!

 

Woods:

Oh, good.

 

Pankhurst:

Particularly some of them who certainly could do with a little education, of sorts.

 

Woods:

Yes.

 

Pankhurst:

Some of them on the lower spheres are in a pretty dire state...

 

Woods:

Do you know...

 

Pankhurst:

...not so far removed from your world.

 

Woods:

Yes.

 

Greene:

No, I bet they aren't.

 

Pankhurst:

Men, whether they like it or not, are victims of their own desirings and create their own conditions. Whatever a man may find himself in, you can be sure he's helped to bring it about, in some shape or form.

 

Woods:

Yes, I think you're right there.

 

Greene:

You're talking about man generally now aren't you?

 

Pankhurst:

Oh of course, not just men as men.

 

Greene:

No.

 

Woods:

No, I quite agree with you.

 

Greene:

Yes.

 

Woods:

Yes.

 

Pankhurst:

I've got Radclyffe Hall* here.

​

*Marguerite Radclyffe Hall = British poet and author

Greene:

Have you?

 

Woods:

Oh.

 

Greene:

Oh.

 

Pankhurst:

A great friend of hers you know.

 

Woods:

Yes I know.

 

Pankhurst:

I met a lot of people over here I used to know in the old days. My goodness me, we had to fight.

 

Greene:

You did fight.

 

Woods:

Oh, you did and didn't you suffer?

 

Pankhurst:

But I can't help thinking we women haven't had much influence, since you seem to be going through more distress. It's because the men are so stupid!

 

Greene: [Laughing]

 

Flint: [Laughing]

 

Woods:

Oh I don't know, you've, uh... they're in the Cabinet* now.

*The Cabinet = British body of Government Ministers

Greene:

Ministers... uh, women are in the Cabinet now Mrs Pankhurst.

​

Pankhurst:

Not enough of them then.

 

Greene:

No.

 

Woods:

No. They're doing a lot of good work.

 

Pankhurst:

Mmm. Women could solve a lot of the Earth's problems over a cup of tea...

 

Woods:

Yes.

 

Greene:

Yes. I think that we could do away with the House of Lords*

 

*House of Lords = British Government body

Pankhurst:

...and discussion.

 

Greene:

Yes.

 

Pankhurst:

The House of Lords?

 

Greene:

They could do away with it.

 

Pankhurst:

About time that was gone, in any case.

 

Greene:

Mmm...

 

Woods:

Yes.

 

Pankhurst:

Outdated, outmoded, a lot of old 'fuzzy-buzzies'!

​

Greene:

Quite right!

 

Woods:

Haven't you met the lady* who was... went in the racecourse... was out there at, uh...?

 

*Emily Davison = suffragette and activist

 

Greene:

Who threw herself under a horse at Epsom?

 

Woods:

A horse at Epsom?

 

Pankhurst:

Oh, of course.

​

Woods:

Yes.

​

Pankhurst:

I've met a lot of my friends and associates.

 

Greene:

Wish I could remember the three of them on television the other night, who were with you, and I can't remember their names. All old ladies now of course.

 

Woods:

You were talked about quite a lot.

 

Greene:

Yes.

 

Flint:

Mmm...

 

Woods:

... and the suffering you went through...

 

Pankhurst:

I've been very drawn back this last day or two. Seems as if there's been a lot of thought-forces sent out.

 

Woods:

Oh there has.

 

Greene:

Well, it's probably that programme, you see.

 

Pankhurst:

Must be fifty years since we got that you know...

 

Woods:

Yes I know. I remember yes.

 

Greene:

Oh it is...

 

Pankhurst:

...the votes for women.