The Leslie F​lint​ Tr​ust

Note: This vintage recording has been enhanced for clarity

Read the full transcript below as you listen to the audio...

Present: Rose Creet, Leon Creet, Bill Willis, Leslie Flint

Communicator: Mickey

Mickey:
… [call them]self gods, of some description or the other – invariably false ones of course.

Whereas the real man is the one who worships, not himself, but the inner part of himself that he knows is beyond the material, beyond the physical – that is the reality, the real individual, the ego (call it what you will) that is part of a divine something.

He may not understand what that divinity is or what the divine plan is or how he fits in with the jigsaw puzzle of life. But the point is, he knows that he is, within himself, something much greater than what he appears.

And it's for him to develop that part of himself until it expands, until he bursts the bonds of material conditions in which he confines himself by his (or has confined himself) by his thoughts and upbringing, and so on, through centuries of time and... and gradually becomes, as it were, God-like.

Rose Creet:

Hmm...

Mickey:

Huh? There are no limits to what a man can become. Jesus said, 'Greater things than these shall ye do, for I have gone to my father'. And there's no doubt about it that Jesus knew what he was talking about. All the things that Jesus did were natural law. He knew how to draw upon the natural resources of nature and the powers beyond the... Earth world and forces of a higher condition altogether: spiritual forces.

Rose:

How did he manage to get that power, uh, Mickey?

Mickey:

Because of his inner development and awareness and obviously because he was sent on to the Earth, in a physical body, for a mission. He was an old soul – a very highly evolved and experienced one – and he learned how to overcome the flesh. But he had to take on the vehicle of flesh to express himself to the people of his day.

Rose:

I suppose he came down for a special mission, did he?

Mickey:

Oh yes, but of course there've been many others who have come down, since and before.

Rose:

Yes, I know.

Mickey:

But how often does this world listen to them? They crucify them, they stone them to death, they put them in prison. They do everything under the sun – bar listen to them, invariably.

Leon: [Quietly]

If they listened they wouldn't need them.

Rose:

Mmm?

Leon:

If they did listen, they wouldn't need them.

Mickey:

Wouldn't heed them or need them?

Leon:

Wouldn't need them.

Leslie Flint: [Sniffing]

Mickey:

Ah! If they listened and followed they wouldn't need them, in time.

Leon:

Well it's ok, but it's not as if they were capable of following what was said, then they wouldn't... wouldn't have needed them in the first place.

Mickey:

I don't quite follow that.

Flint: [Sighing]

Leon:

Well, briefly, if man is capable of perfection in this life then...

Mickey:

Ah! I didn't say he was capable of perfection – you've got me wrong there.

Leon:

No, I didn't say you did. But if... my point was, that it... it's obvious, that a person who is very much above others couldn't possibly be understood or followed. Maybe to a slight extent, but never to the extent that is required.

Mickey:

Well, it depends. That depends. After all, um, when you take a kid at school; the teacher is much more highly developed, obviously, than the child, but he teaches and imbues a certain amount of his knowledge into the child's brain-box and [it's] the same with any great spiritual teacher that comes into your world. He can imbue some of his teachings, at least, into some of the knuckleheads* that get around in your world!

*knucklehead = a person with meagre intelligence

Leon:

Yes, but it's quite different. The, uh... the difference in quality between the teacher and the child is very much smaller... than, uh... someone of great mental development, and...

Mickey:

Well, all right, I'll grant you that, but the point is that... that, if... if one great teacher comes into the world and can convince the thousands, shall we say, and help that thousand to develop within themselves and show them and help them to develop their own spiritual qualities, so that they can also do and perform the miracles, so termed, in your world (because they're not understood but they're only natural laws... explained and worked and so-on) then, if those thousand can become disciples, they can convert another thousand, and so it grows like a snowball and in time everybody becomes converted and everybody is then conscious of these things that we're trying to give you.

Leon:

Yes, but during the conversion the thing erases itself, so that you get to a point which is rather where you were before.

Mickey:

Well...

Leon:

Except for a few people, who, by reason, after what has been said... can develop themselves...

Mickey:

Well, Jesus said 'unless ye be as little children you cannot enter the kingdom of heaven' – which is perfectly true, because the average person that comes here, he goes to a certain plane of existence according to his development. Well, since everyone's development is so limited and so... so small and their material aspect is so strong and their vision, and so on, is merely of material things; they find for themselves, what you might call, a replica of material things, to a certain extent.

And they have already limited their own entrance into the kingdom of God, because their... they haven't been like children, inasmuch that they haven't striven to learn. They haven't bothered to learn the real lessons that matter, the lessons concerning things of the spirit and their own qualities within themselves.

They've only been concerned with materialism and, in consequence, um, they have not developed at all and... and they... they have been so blown up with their own conceit and they think they know so much and they know nothing at all, fundamentally, about things that really matter. In consequence, they've limited themselves to such an extent, when they come here they're not very happy!

Leslie:

Huh!

Rose:

Ah-ha...

Flint:

I thought you always said they were happy, Mickey.

Mickey:

Oh, I'm talking about people, when they first come here, they're happy in their own condition inasmuch as they... they... they think that it's rather wonderful. But they're not really happy, when they begin to probe and they begin to think and begin to see that they are living, in a sense, a fool's paradise.

Then they start to stir themselves a bit and begin to want to know and develop and spiritualise themselves and then they begin to get on. Before you can have progress you've got to have a period of discontentment.

[Sound of Flint's dog barking]

Rose:

Yes. Discontentment is a good thing on the whole.

Mickey:

Yes, discontentment's a very good thing, if it is the right kind of discontentment.

Leslie:

Huh!

Mickey:

Depends on what you're discontented with. The first... the first, um, step on the road of progress is to be discontented with yourself.

Rose:

Yes!

All: [Laughing]

Mickey:

The person who's very satisfied with themselves or thinks they've done pretty well for themselves is the person who's got the most to learn.

All: [Laughing]

Rose:

Quite true. I'm quite thrilled tonight, Mickey. Well done there, Mickey.

Mickey:

Are you?

Rose:

Mmm...

Mickey:

Well, you've got me on it.

Rose:

Yes!

All: [Laughing]

Mickey:

And I might as well natter to you, while they do what they're doing.

Rose:

Oh lovely!

Mickey:

That dog. What's up with him tonight?

Bill Willis:

Don't know, Mickey.

Mickey:

I reckon he's seen a Saint Bernard!

All: [Laughing]

Mickey:

It's the only spiritual dog I could think of - being a saint.

All: [Laughing]

Rose:

Oh dear!

Mickey:

I don't know if he's got a bottle of rum there?

Leslie:

'A bottle of rum!'

Bill:

Well, Woofy wouldn't be interested in that... only a spiritual lamp post.

All: [Laughing]

Leslie:

'A spiritual lamp post!'

All: [Laughing]

Leslie: [Coughing]

Mickey:

And that's what I'm trying to turn Ginger into – a spiritual lamp post.

All: [Laughing]

Leon:

[unintelligible] a physical one to a spiritual one...

All: [Laughing]

Mickey:

Yes, because your head would be illuminated with wisdom!

All: [Laughing]

Rose:

Lovely! Oh that's lovely.

Mickey:

It won't matter then if the dogs do come and pee up against her, would it?

As long as your head's up in the clouds and you're giving forth a good light.

Leslie: [Laughing]

Oh dear! Cut that out!

Rose:

[unintelligible]

Oh dear, oh dear! [Coughing]

Leslie:

Oh, Woofy's well away tonight. Must be something, for him to bark on.

[Sound of dog barking continues]

Rose:

I wonder what's happening?

Leslie:

The doors were shut? You shut the doors didn't you, in the flat?

Leon:

Yes.

Rose:

We shut the door didn't we? Didn't you?

Leon:

Yes, the door was shut...

[Brief silence]

Rose: [Whispering]

Somebody rang the bell.

What do you say Billy?

Bill:

Oh, I don't know. Sometimes he barks when he hears somebody whistling, or something like that...

Mickey: [Sighing]

Is there anything else you want to ask, before I go?

Flint:

Oh dear! [Coughing]

Leon:

Well, there's one point that you will probably find very difficult to explain to me. And you said something a little while ago about living in a four-dimensional world.

Rose:

Yes?

Leslie: [Laughing]

Leon:

Well, what... what did he mean by that?

Mickey:

Well, you live in the three dimensions, don't you?

[Sound of dog barking]

Leon:

Yes with a, uh, with a co-axial fourth dimension of time, which is running continuously, more or less.

Mickey:

Well, you see, whereas you can't go back in time, for instance, we can. For instance, if I want to stroll back, shall we say, into the tenth century or the ninth century or the eighteenth century or the fifteenth century – or back to the Egyptian eras that you often read about and often like to know about – but the simplest thing for us, once we know how to do it, is to go back into it. It's still there.

Leon:

Hmm. Yes.

Mickey:

It's not ceased to exist.

Leon:

In other words, time for you is... is a dimension like space, that, uh...

Mickey:

Everything that has happened is registered and is permanently there and it's possible for us to become solidified, in a sense, if I can put it like that, with it, when you know how to do it.

Leon:

Yes, well, then traversing in time is... is for you equivalent to traversing in space.

Mickey:

Look, you can't go forward in time until such time as it comes naturally into force, but we can go back. Whereas you can't go back. You see, for instance, everything that has happened, it's happened. But it's still there.

Leon:

Yes, I know that.

Mickey:

And everything that is going to happen is registering.

Rose:

Mmm...

Mickey:

I don't know how to explain it.

[Sound of dog barking]

[Brief silence]

Rose: [Whispering]

Perhaps he's gone.

Leon:

Pardon?

Rose: [Whispering]

Perhaps his power has gone?

Mickey:

But we'll continue this subject next week, from that point, the fourth dimension.

Good night!

All:

Goodnight!

Rose:

Goodnight Mickey.

Leslie:

Goodnight.

Huh, dear!

Rose:

Bless you darling. Thank you very much.

Leslie:

Huh! It was quite interesting tonight wasn't it.

Rose:

Very.

Leslie:

It got really, sort of, warmed up, didn't it?

Rose:

Yes.

[Dog continues to bark]

[Sound of shuffling]

Leslie:

Where's my slippers? I pushed my slippers off to ease my feet. [Laughing]

Rose: [Laughing]

Flint:

I can't put them on again.

[Sighing] I've never known Woofy to go on barking so intensely.

Bill:

Let's get out when the light goes on.

Leslie:

It's something, he wouldn't go on and on indefinitely like that.

[Sound of movement/shuffling]

Leslie: [Sighing]

Rose:

I know what you want: cigarette!

END OF RECORDING

This transcript was kindly created for the Trust by Lorie McCloud in February 2022