George Woods:

[...come on] friend, we can hear you.

 

George Harris: (Speaking to another spirit)

But I don't think it is, you know. It's all very well for you to say that, but I don't see myself like that.

 

Betty Greene:

Come along friend, that was very plain.

 

Harris:

How's this so very good? Very good if you can do that I suppose. It's alright for some people.

 

Voice: (Whispering)

Yes I know, but you can manage it.

 

Harris:

I don't think I can.

 

Voice:

Yes you can.

 

Flint:

Huh!

 

Greene:

It was very plain that was.

 

Flint:

Mmm.

 

Harris:

Spirits...

 

Woods:

Yes?

 

Flint:

Huh!

 

Woods:

Yes.

 

Greene:

Yes, come along. You're plain.

 

Woods:

Very clear. Come on, friend.

 

Harris:

Spiritualism.

 

Greene:

Yes?

 

Harris:

Ha! I didn't have very much time for this sort of thing when I was on your side. Matter of fact, it was something that was completely remote from my existence.

 

Woods:

Yes...

 

Greene:

Yes...

 

Harris:

You're Spiritualists, aren't you?

 

Woods:

Not...not...

 

Greene:

Not really, no. No, not really.

 

Harris:

You're not Spiritualists? Well, I thought you were Spiritualists or something: get in touch with us...

 

Woods:

Oh yes, well, yes. We...

 

Greene:

From that point of view, yes.

 

Woods:

From that point of view, yes, yes.

 

Harris:

Oh, you're... you sound a bit as if you're prejudiced against Spiritualists then.

 

Woods:

Oh no...

 

Flint:

(Laughing) Oh dear!

 

Woods:

We are, uh...

 

Harris:

Well if you're not Spiritualists, what the devil are you then?

​

Woods:

Well, we're...

 

Greene:

Researchers.

 

Woods:

...researchers, you see?

 

Harris:

Well, I can't see any difference myself.

 

Greene: (Laughing)

 

Woods:

Oh, I see. Yes.

 

Harris:

If you sit and wait for the 'so-called' dead to come and talk to you, what are you but Spiritualists?

 

Greene:

Well, is it... will you give us your name, friend?

 

Harris:

Eh?

 

Greene:

Please may we have your name?

 

Harris:

My name? My name won't mean a darn thing to you, in any case. So what's the point?

 

Flint: (Laughing)

Oh, dear, oh dear!

 

Greene:

Well if... come and tell us about yourself and what... you know...

 

Flint: (Coughing)

 

Greene:

What you do...

 

Harris:

George Harris.

 

Greene:

Pardon?

 

Harris:

Didn't you want my name? I might as well tell you. My name's George Harris.

 

Greene:

George Harris.

 

Woods:

Yes.

 

Greene:

And what did you do when you were on Earth George?

 

Harris:

Oh cripes! Questions, questions, questions!

 

Greene:

Oh yes.

 

Harris:

It looks as if you've got to carry around your what's-it card when you come here.

 

Flint: (Laughing)

Oh, dear!

 

Woods:

Well, give us a talk...

 

Greene:

Give us a talk, George.

 

Woods:

I'll leave it to you.

 

Harris:

What difference does that make?

 

Woods:

Well we'd... we'd like to hear...what you have to say.

 

Harris:

Well I mean... as soon as I get my breath out, you might say, you want to know who I am, where I am, where I've come from... (To himself) Cor, stone me!

 

Woods:

No, not necessarily, you, uh... it's whatever you'd like to tell us, okay? You talk to us... anything you like. We leave it to you.

 

Harris:

Spiritualists! Of course you're Spiritualists. You must be Spiritualists, otherwise you wouldn't be sitting there trying to talk to me.

 

Flint: (Laughing)

 

Woods:

Oh dear...

 

Harris:

All this 'research' lark.

​

Woods:

What?

 

Greene: (Laughing)

 

Flint: (Laughing)

 

Woods:

Well, just tell us about your side of life and, uh, different things.

 

Harris:

Well as far as I'm concerned, it ain't so much different to yours.

 

Greene:

Well George, listen, when you died you... you passed...

 

Harris: (Interrupting)

Eh?

 

Greene:

...when you passed over, you found yourself alive. Now, how did you think about things?

 

Harris:

Well, you mean when I... when I peg... when I pegged out?

 

Greene:

Yes.

 

Harris:

Huh! Much the same as being on your side, as far as I can make out of it. There are certain differences, I suppose; course there are. We haven't got all the old worries and the headaches we had like... well... finding wherewithal and all the rest of it.

 

Greene:

Mmm.

 

Harris:

And our life's very much, in some ways, the same - much the same. The same... as far as I've seen everything's just as solid, just as real. Got our houses and places and interests. Course, we don't have to go out to work. Nothing like that. I don't have to try and earn a few bob*. Money don't mean nothing here. Money is no consequence at all. You are as you are and what you are.

​

A few bob = a little money

​

(Sounds from the upstairs flat)

...Oh blimey what are they up to? Dropping things about. They might.... look out... (Unintelligible mumbling)

 

Greene:

You're alright. That's up...

 

Harris: (Interrupting)

Eh?

 

Greene:

You're alright. That's upstairs.

 

Harris:

Ah, I know it's upstairs. I've been up there and had a jolly good old look round before I came down here. Nice house.

 

Greene:

Yes.

 

Woods:

Er...

 

Harris:

Eh?

 

Woods:

What... what do you have on your side? You have animals and... but you don't have such a thing as cars or...

 

Harris:

I ain't seen no bleeding cars. Oh blimey, who wants cars? We can get around here on our own two feet.

 

Woods:

Do you ride horses?

 

Harris:

Well, I ain't.

 

Woods:

No.

 

Harris:

I suppose there are them that do.

 

Woods:

How do you spend your time on that side?

 

Harris:

Well, I'm interested in building. I was in the building trade and...

 

Woods:

Oh yes?

 

Harris:

... I'm very interested in building and I like my job. But here it's rather different. You do build. You do build, with materials and things that are real and solid and all that, but, uh, of course you don't do it for money. You don't do it for... you know, because you've got to do it. You do it because you like doing it, because you get pleasure and happiness out of it.

 

Course, I've been told by some of the people that, where I am, it's, uh, very sort of, um, what I suppose you'd call it, uh, 'early stages' you know.

 

Woods:

Yes...

 

Harris:

And that's why we have to 'build', as you say, you know. But, uh, they do say, you know, on them higher planes, as they call it, that everything's created by thought. Well, I suppose it is. I don't know. Can't make head nor tail of it, myself.

 

Where I am, it's as real, as real can be. You have materials and you work with materials. You create, as you say, with materials. Uh... oh, I've seen practically a replica of, oh, many things which were common on your side. People don't just sort of sit and think about something and there it is. Wouldn't be much pleasure in that. I should think that's a lousy way of carrying on, myself.

 

I think, unless you have to make some effort towards it and build for it and work for it... After all that's the only real pleasure and happiness, I think, as far as I can see is... is... being, you know, sort of, creative. You know... doing it with your own... you know... effort, like. And all this business they talk about... these high places I've heard them... talk about. Maybe. I don't know. Can't cotton on to that at all.

 

Greene:

George, how do you get your bricks for building?

 

Harris:

Oh, they're... they're produced. Places where they supply them, and you can collect them and you can use them and build them... uh... Course, it's a marvellous spot where I am, you know; beautiful spot. Houses; ooh, very nice, very nice places.

 

Hundreds and thousands of people where I live, living in little communities; little, what you call I suppose, well... villages, I suppose. Some of them seem to have a place that looks - so they tell me - like what they had when they was on Earth.

 

But of course I myself, speaking for myself, I was more or less always in digs* somewhere or other. Different places. I shifted about, 'from and to' and all the rest of it. Course, I was very much a man on my own. I didn't mix a lot. I didn't ever marry. Well, you know...

​

*Digs = temporary accommodation.

 

Woods:

Do you build houses for special people or everybody, or how do you... who does... who do you decide to have the houses?

 

Harris:

Well, that depends on the individuals.

 

Woods:

Yes?

 

Harris:

I mean there's no business firms or anything like that. But, uh, everyone who comes over here - I'm talking about where I am - uh, if they had a trade or something rather special and they enjoyed it and it made them happy, they have the same thing here.

You... you get the carpenters, you get the decorators and, uh, all that, and I suppose, uh, whatever you enjoyed doing on Earth, you can still carry on doing it here...

 

(Noise from the upstairs flat)

 

Harris:

[Oh shut up...]

 

And they do say as how...

 

[Hey, clear off!]

And they do say, as how, over here, you know, that you can do whatever you want to do, until such time as you begin to think a different way. I mean, I listen to these people from these other places...

 

Woods:

Yes...

 

Harris:

...they come and they talk and they tell you this, that and the t'other, but why should we give up... I mean, why should I give up a condition, as you call it, of life where I'm perfectly happy and perfectly content and I got all the sort of things that interest me. And I...

As I say, I'm quite happy building, helping others who, you know, were also in the building trade that was on Earth and we build and work together. And our houses are as real and solid as yours, and some of them are real beautiful, you know.

 

Of course, the people that we build for are people that we like, people we're fond of, people who are anxious for something of their own, and their own way of thinking and idea, and it's all worked out. There are people who create here. There are those who, um... what you call it, uh... architects and all that. And, uh, they rough out* things, you know; work out things and we follow it out.

 

* Rough out = sketch a plan

Course, there are some aspects that ain't the same. I mean, you soon realise you don't want to eat in the same way and there ain't none of the other aspects of life which are common on Earth, but, uh... It's funny... it's more like your world but more perfect; without all the irritating things, you know, and the things that... well, there's no aches, no pains, no illness. I ain't seen no hospitals or nothing like that.

Although, there again, they tell me there are places like hospitals, but they say they're for mental cases, you know; people that... they're sort of 'peculiar in the head', like, you know. I can't imagine why they should be peculiar in the head, over here.

 

But then they do try and tell me, for instance, and others that have been to these meetings and that, where they say as how it's a state of mind; that everywhere where you live's a state of mind and if you think you want to do certain things, then you do certain things. But until you learn to, sort of, 'look out' in a different way, then you carry on in the same old way.

 

Well, I mean, that's all very well, as far as it goes, but why should I want to change? I'm quite happy. I was a builder on your side. I got pleasure out of my work. I always enjoyed it. Do the same here...

 

...to me, the bricks I use are as solid as any I ever used on Earth. Mind you, I don't know where they come from. That's a... you asked me that and I don't know. I suppose there must be places where they... brick kilns... I don't know. But everything looks real to me. Everything seems real. And everything seems much as it was on Earth.

 

But that's what these others tell me; that, uh, you know, that it's a state of mind. I don't know whether they're trying to tell me that because of my state of mind - and I think I can't build unless I have bricks and I have all the things that are necessary, like.

And therefore, they seem to try and say to me (of course I don't believe a word of it) they try and say to me that I do all of this out of my own state of mind - and the same applies to all the other people where I am; that we're working on a certain, what do you call it, state of mind, vibration or material vibration or something they try to tell me, you know.

 

And in consequence, everything seems what it is, but it ain't really - if you follow what I mean? Which seems to me as if, they're trying to say, that we're living in a state of illusion.

 

Well, I don't believe that lark. I mean the bricks I touch are real. I mean, I come and talk to you. It's as real as real. I mean, uh... huh! I've seen some of these other people. I mean, they're very nice, very pleasant and all that but... you know...

 

I mean, I was never one for being talked to, when I was on your side. I never used to go to church and I never used to go to the meetings and things like that, sort of thing. I'd heard about Spiritualists. That's what I though you was... well you must be, otherwise you wouldn't be talking to me. I mean, it's... it's all a state of mind I suppose, to some extent.

 

But when a state of mind is as real as mine is, that ain't an illusion. How can it be? I mean, the bricks are as real as real, and the houses that we build are as real as real. And we go through the same old process as we did on Earth. I mean we... we really build.

​

Greene: (Unintelligible)

 

Harris:

I mean... yeah, all those things.

 

Everyone does his own little job and we all work together in harmony. And, of course, you do eat, but uh... funny that. That's one thing I do think there's something in that - what they say - you know.

 

I get the impression that we... I don't know. When I first came here it seemed, I suppose, it was necessary to me to have certain things, meals and that. And now I don't feel the urge so much. It's funny that. And in consequence I don't seem to need to eat. You don't have to go to the toilet even. Isn't it funny? I mean, you have a darn good meal and you'd think... well, later on, you'd have to go the joey*, you know, but you don't!

 

That's a thing that shook me at first. Couldn't make head or tail of this. And then they said, 'Oh well it's different. It ain't the same old physical body,' as they call it, and 'it hasn't got the same, sort of, construction,' or whatever that is. And, uh, they said, 'Really, this business that you want to eat and, others like you, feel the need for a cup of tea and all that - it's only a state of mind'.

 

Course, I suppose, in some sort of way, what they say is true enough but, um, I suppose it is. But I'm so happy as I am in my own natural surroundings and carrying on the kind of things that appeal to me. And I meet many people now that I've made pals with and, uh...

I haven't met my mother and father yet though. That's a funny business, isn't it? I haven't met none of my relations. My old lady, she passed over... cor... many years back now and she was a bit of a religious woman. I always thought she was a bit nutty, you know, on religion.

 

The old man, he died, oh, when I was a youngster. I had another brother. I ain't met him. He...he was more or less, um... well, only a matter of... oh, about a year between us. He went out to Australia. Cor! I'd have never... I suppose he's on... I suppose he must be dead now. But if he is, I ain't met him yet.

 

Funny that is. I ain't met none of my people. Course, the old lady was real religious, so probably she's gone up on top, you know... you know... all that lark.

 

Flint: (Sniffing)

 

Woods:

Do you have night and day there, sort of...?

 

Harris:

Yes. Same as you do. Night and day. Of course we do.

 

Woods:

And at night time - dark?

 

Harris:

I go to sleep, go to bed, wake up, the same as you do on Earth.

 

(Sound of Flint's dog barking)

 

Harris:

Different seasons. Rain and shine and all that. Oh yes, I can tell you a few things about that. It's all very natural.

​

Woods:

You have...

 

Harris:

Eh?

 

Greene:

You have rain did you say?

 

Harris:

Have what?

 

Greene:

Did you say you have rain?

 

Harris:

Yeah. Rain and all that. I... It's just the same. It's as if you have a replica (is that it?)...of Earth, you know.

 

Greene:

Yes.

 

Harris:

Oh, very nice.

 

Greene:

George, when you first went over, how had you felt? I mean, sort of, weren't you bewildered?

 

Harris:

Oh well, sort of, you know. Sort of... sort of... sort of.

 

Greene:

Mmm.

 

Woods:

And do you... and do you, um... are there trees there, you know, and do they die and live?

 

Harris:

Everything dies and lives.

 

Woods:

And lives... and grows again?

 

Harris:

Yes. Excepting people...

 

Woods:

Just like it did on Earth?

 

Harris:

Excepting people and animals. They don't die.

 

Woods:

No. But the trees fade away and...

 

Harris:

Well, they have their seasons.

 

Woods:

...like autumn?

 

Harris:

To me it's exactly the same as Earth.

 

Greene:

So you have spring, summer and autumn, just the same as we do?

 

Harris:

Yes. Just the same... just the same... just the same...

 

Woods:

Yes, that's very interesting.

 

Harris:

... just the same...

 

Greene:

Very interesting.

 

Woods:

Yes.

 

Harris:

Er......

 

Woods:

Oh, don't go friend. We like talking to you.

 

Harris:

...I can't manage it. Perhaps I'll come some other time.

 

Greene:

Ahh...

 

Woods:

What a pity...

 

Greene:

Oh George, you gave a lovely talk.

 

Woods:

Yes it was, very.

 

Harris:

See you when... later on. Bye-bye.

 

Greene:

Goodbye George. Thank you.