David:

I thought I recognised you.

 

Greene:

Yes?

You're Scotch aren't you?

 

David:

There's a crowd of people here. ….and I don't think... um...um... I don't think many of them have been before.

 

Greene:

Oh...

 

David:

I think that some are a bit new.

 

Greene:

Yes?

 

David:

How are you today Mr Woods?

 

Woods:

Oh, very well. Very well indeed. Very well. We're very pleased to hear you come through.

 

[Brief silence]

 

Woods:

Come along friend, we can hear you quite well.

 

Voice:

Oh yes... that's right...

 

David:

Aye, that's alright. You can try if you want to. But you'll find it difficult at first, I expect. Well, you're not used to it you see.

 

Woods:

Yes?

 

Greene:

He's talking to somebody...

 

Woods:

Oh, I see...

 

[Brief silence]

 

David: [Louder]

Are you sending those tapes out?

 

Greene:

Yes, we are.

 

David:

Aye. I bet that keeps you pretty busy one way and another, now?

 

Greene:

It does, yes.

 

David:

Aye.

 

Greene:

We also do transcriptions as well, you see.

 

David:

Aye, you write it down and get it typed out. Is that what you mean?

 

Woods / Greene:

Yes. Yes.

 

David:

Aye. I should imagine you have a very big correspondence, one way or another, at getting these things out and about?

 

Greene:

Yes we do.

 

Woods:

Oh we... we have quite a big correspondence...

 

David:

That's quite a room that you've got there.

 

Greene: [Laughing]

Have you seen it?

 

David:

Aye.

If you were to move...

 

Greene:

Yes?

 

David:

It's what they're talking about. You're going to have quite a bit of stuff to shift and get organised.

 

Greene:

Yes.

 

Woods:

Yes.

 

David:

And that's no joke.

 

Greene:

No, well, never mind.

Please, who is it speaking?

 

David:

Aye...David. Well, that's the name you can call me by. David.

 

Greene:

David? Haven't you been before, David?

 

David:

Aye, a long time back now.

 

Greene:

I thought you had.

 

David:

At least I think so. I think this time business is always a problem. But I think it was a while since I last came and spoke to you. How is your... how are you now? Are you better now?

​

Woods:

Oh yes.

 

David:

Because you you were very sick at one time.

 

Woods:

Yes.

 

David:

You know, you were really run down.

 

Woods:

Yes. It was an operation, you see.

 

David:

Aye. I heard all about that. You had a pretty bad time.

 

Woods:

Yes, I'm alright now...

 

David:

But you're alright now?

 

Woods:

Yes.

 

David:

Aye, that's the good attention and care that you get, I expect, from the lady.

 

Woods:

Yes.

 

Flint:

Huh!

 

Greene:

He's been very good this summer really - and he's been travelling.

 

David:

What? I was going to say is, summer's hardly started yet.

 

Greene: [Laughing]

The past winter, he's been really quite good.

 

Woods:

What are you doing...uh, David; on that side?

 

David:

Rescue work most of the time.

 

Greene:

Rescue work?

 

David:

Aye. It's been my main interest; helping people over. Quite often, you know, get sad cases of souls who are in really great need and they're very close to Earth and Earthbound; held down by thoughts and things, you know.

​

Greene:

Mmm...

 

David:

Then of course, you get some of these young people that come here. They're very resentful, some of them, of being taken away from Earth. Their mind is full of material things. It's not always easy to get them to, sort of, adjust themselves. And then they cling to their homes, and that sort of thing, and parents and friends.

 

And you get some of these terrible things, you know, that happen with people... uh, sent over here, you know. It's like being in your world one minute and the next thing they're out of the body, you know. They're still, sort of, in a way, attached to the body - clinging to things, you know.

 

Greene:

Yes.

 

David:

Like you get someone killed in a car crash, you know. It all happens so quick and...uh, and before you can say 'Jack Robinson'*, they're out of the body and they can see what's happened. And at first they don't realise it's themselves, that they've... they don't always cotton-on** to these things straight away.

​

*'Jack Robinson' = something happening quickly.

**cotton-on = grasp / realise

 

Some do, of course, but it's always problematic. You feel that they're trying to get back, you know, sometimes, into the body. It's very difficult. I've been working on a case just now of a young laddie who was killed in a car. He hit a lorry, you know - well, the lorry hit him.

 

Greene:

Mmm...

 

David:

And, uh, of course, he was out... in a split-second almost, you might say. But, of course, there was all the terrible mess, and all that, and the ambulance. He was clinging to himself, you know. He went with the ambulance with the body in the hospital, and everything, at the mortuary and he... he couldn't, sort of, adjust himself to the idea that he was dead.

It was a weird thing in a way, because he was still, sort of, clinging to the material things and... anyway, then he went to his home and to his parents and clung there, you know, and... of course, they had only just heard the news and it was a terrible upset there, naturally, and...

 

Greene:

Mmm...

 

David:

He was trying to bang on the table and trying to attract their attention and let them know he was alright; that he was there. But, of course, they did not see him and that made him furious. He got so cross, you know, and, uh... It seems odd to talk about a soul that's out of the body, getting annoyed and getting cross.

 

Greene:

It does.

 

David:

But when people first come here, they're no different to what they were, you know, in the body. And they still have the same outlook and the same, sort of, ideas. And he was furious, because no one could see him or take any notice of him. He tried everything he could think of to attract attention. But, of course, he was not able to do anything spectacular, uh... which might have made them sit up and think.

 

I mean, you get some of the souls, uh, that are able to move objects around a room or... or tilt a table up and down or do something crazy like that, you know - just to let people know. But he did not know how to do any of these things. He was just walking around and he went to his funeral and everything and all his friends and tried to go to them and help them, you know - tried to make them know that he was about, but it did not have an effect, you know.

 

Anyway, I was able to help him, gradually, to get away from things and change his outlook a wee bit - but he was very strong, in a material sense. He was more of the Earth than he was anything else. Took me quite a while to get him free.

 

Greene:

How did you get through to him David. How did you manage it?

 

David:

Oh... I have my own methods, you know, but different souls on this side who act in that, sort of, capacity, they... they have... some have different methods to others, it's true - according to their own individual light and idea of things and certain people need certain... a certain way of being treated, and they... I was... well, I just went around with this boy - he didn't see me at first of course, because he was so blind to anything of the spirit.

 

Greene:

Mmm...

 

David:

He was so immersed in himself and material things. But gradually, when began he to feel, in a sense, lost, you know, he did not get anywhere with all his tantrums and banging and one thing and the other, to attract attention.

 

Then he began, no doubt, from what I can gather anyway... and his mind seemed to change a wee bit. It's as if he, sort of, opened up. And then, of course, he became conscious of other things, and me in particular. And I was chummy and pally* with him and talking to him and trying to make him see some sense. And I said, 'what's the point of you hanging around here, laddie? You'll not get anywhere, because no one is going to take a blind bit of notice of you. Best thing to do is to come with me and I'll be able to help you a lot.'

 

*chummy and pally = friendly

 

At that time I discovered too that he'd been very fond of an animal - a dog - and, um, although he didn't know this at the time, he didn't realise of course, when... when he'd been going to his parents place, the dog was there, but he didn't cotton-on to the fact. He didn't realise that, although he could see the dog, he did not realise that the dog itself was the dead dog. He just couldn't appreciate that at all. 

He was, sort of, all caught up in the material side of things.

 

Greene:

Mmm...

 

David:

Anyway, the dog followed him around too, trying to make himself, sort of, you know, known, as it were, you know. And gradually, as the boy became more aware, and I was able to bring this dog to him, you know - to his consciousness, as it were, you might say - he began to realise, that because the dog had died some few years previously... and that helped him in a way, because he was happy to be with the dog.

 

Also, then his grandparents - I was able to contact them and they were able to make a link and gradually he opened up his mind to things that were of... of the spirit...

 

Greene:

Mmm...

 

David:

...and he was gradually loosening his hold on material things. And then I took him to a Spiritualist meeting - I thought perhaps that might be of some help in some way; if he could get through and...uh, sort of, make a link, you know.

 

Well, actually, I... I was able to manage to make a contact there with the medium, but he did not succeed in that. Anyway, he could see the possibility of getting through and getting over, you know, and that gave him a, sort of, a lift-up, a bit. But at the same time, he... he was still very suspicious of... of... well, I think he was suspicious, in a way, of all sorts of things - quite apart from the mediums and that sort of thing. He didn't cotton-on too easily to mediums, but he began to realise the possibility.

 

But, of course, what annoyed him I think, after that, he went to several places and none of these mediums seemed to cotton-on to him being there. They did not seem to see him, although he tried desperately to show himself, and I think that made him a bit edgy and irritable. So I thought, the best thing to do was not to try that at all, not to force that at all, you know, but to wait a while.

Anyway, he's now very settled over here and he's taking an interest in various things, uh...things, which on Earth, he did not do. As a matter of fact, I suppose, being so young too, he had no formative ideas; no strong, sort of, ideas about what he wanted to be - at least he didn't give that impression to me.

 

He was...um, rather, shall we say, quite happy to get in a car and go speeding around, and all that sort of thing. I'm not surprised that he met his death that way because, in a way, he was rather [stupid in a car].

 

Greene:

Mmm...

 

David:

He was not the sort of deep thinking sort of person. Actually, he was rather a difficult case and, in a kind of way, he was his own enemy. He was not a bad lad, but at the same time he was thoughtless and rather self-centred, and it took him a little time to get adjusted.

 

But now he's making good headway* and he's taking a great interest in music and art and he's beginning to study and beginning to settle down and meeting interesting people and he's beginning to form something, you know, of himself, you know.

​

*headway = progress

Greene:

Yes. Is he living with his... with relations or...?

 

David:

Aye. He's with his grandparents and his mother's now just about to come over and I guess she'll be here very soon. I think that will make him very happy too. Of course, you see, there again, we come back to this timeelement. Time is nothing, it's an illusion... and I think that his mother, she... after he, you know, sort of, had this accident, she lost all interest in life. I think this was sad too, in a way, but he'll be happy when she joins him, which would be any day, I expect, now.

 

Greene:

Mmm...

 

David:

But, um... he's settled down. He's very much happier, a very fine fellow too, a nice lad now - much better actually than he was when he was on Earth, because he was the sort of boy who did not take much interest in anything or anybody, only himself. His parents had done pretty well in a little business that they had and, you know, they, sort of, spoiled him; sent him to a good school and all that, gave him all the opportunities and I think he was a rather selfish young man, there's no doubt about that.

 

Greene:

David, I often think about these air crashes we have, you know. People in them, they must, sort of, hang around the place [don't they]?

 

David:

Ah, that's another kind of thing that's very bad. When you get these sort of things happening, when people... it's always worse when people come like... sudden like that, you know.

 

Greene:

Mmm...

 

David:

It's very bad indeed.. and, uh, we've had many of those cases... when there have been bad air crashes, you know.

 

Greene:

Yes.

 

David:

I've helped in quite a number of instances like that.

 

Woods:

Uh... uh... what happens to these men who have been electrocuted or hanged - they're actually Earthbound aren't they?

 

Greene:

You mean for a punishment?

 

Woods:

Yes.

 

David:

Well that's bad too, because... well, that's in a way worse, because often they have a resentment towards society and sometimes they cling to Earth and they can be... some of them cling to Earth for a very long time and they can do a great deal of harm. But sometimes they impinge their thoughts and impinge themselves on a person on your side who, probably in the normal way, is quite a decent sort of person. Sometimes they even influence that person to do wrong things.

 

There's no doubt about it that you do get souls who were certainly, uh, not very good people, and did some, perhaps, pretty bad things, and they don't necessarily change immediately, as you well know, and sometimes they get earthbound and cling to people. Indeed, in quite a lot of mental asylums and places, there's a lot of earthbound spirits - mischievous and sometimes very bad spirits - around people there who are weak-minded.

 

As a matter of fact, there are crowds of souls from this side; doctors and people who specialise in helping mental patients on your side, trying to influence them for good, of course, and they help to them to get mentally 'straightened out' and get them physically fit and well.

 

But we are always battling against the bad forces and you must always remember there are dangers. There are souls who are, not necessarily always evil or anything like that, but who really can be very disastrously... you know, uh... inclined and, uh, sometimes do harm. We do what we can to get them away.

 

Greene:

David, how do you get rid of a spirit who has possessed somebody? How do you get him out of the person or out of the person's auric condition?

 

David:

Well that's a ticklish* question to ask me, because...

​

*ticklish = difficult / awkward

​

Greene:

Is it? Sorry.

 

David:

Well, why should you be sorry, because what may affect...or may be effective in one way... with one person, may not be effective in another. There are various methods that are used and there are various people, on this side, who specialise in dealing with cases of what you call 'obsession'.

 

But a great deal depends on the individual case... uh, usually we are successful, but, um, there are cases, of course, where it's very difficult to remove the obsessing spirit - particularly when they take, more or less, complete contr... complete, uh, possession.

 

If it's only a, kind of, borderline case, it's not too bad. But sometimes those who've really got complete control over someone else's physical body, it's a very, very, difficult thing indeed. And there have been instances, of course, where people have gone through the rest of their life...uh, [and] the body has been obsessed by some other soul... uh, and this has been one of the worst things [unintelligible].

 

Greene:

Mmm...

 

David:

You know, a lot of people in mental asylums are not mad - in as much that, they are not responsible. Sometimes they have obsessing 

spirits and that's why you get these cases of people who are perfectly normal for a while and then, all of a sudden, they start to do something which is irrational and it's obvious that someone else has taken control.

 

Actually, I think it's a pity that psychiatrists and people who deal with mental patients, don't know more about possession and don't know more about this sort of thing, this subject - which you know quite a bit. It would be a great help to them.

 

Greene:

…[unintelligible]… yes.

 

David:

I think that they should know more about this, you know.

 

Greene:

I once mentioned possession to a psychiatrist and he just looked at me and said, 'that went out with the ark'*, or something like that, you see.

​

*went out with the ark = outdated / from the past.

 

David:

Aye, well...

 

Greene:

[Unintelligible]

 

David:

...they don't understand.

 

Greene:

Yes. What about suicides David? I mean, they can be possessed too can't they?

 

David:

Oh, there are many instances, of course, where people have committed suicide when they've been under a bad influence. But of course, quite often, most suicides [are] due to the individual themselves.

 

Greene:

Mmm...

 

David:

They get into a depressed unhappy state and, in consequence, they take their own life, thinking to escape, but of course they can't escape from themselves. That's the thing that people should be made to realise - that death doesn't necessarily mean an escape.

 

Greene:

No.

 

David:

You still have to face up to yourself. You can never escape yourself. Yourself is always there.

 

Greene:

Do you have difficulty with them?

 

David:

Sometimes.

 

Greene:

Mmm...

 

David:

You see, that's the trouble. When you (as you do quite rightly, naturally) ask certain questions about whether it's suicide or obsession...uh, it's very difficult to give a clear-cut* answer, because what may apply in one instance or one case, doesn't necessarily apply in another. Every individual case is an individual...uh, case, in itself... every person is not the same.

​

*clear-cut = accurate/definitive

 

The reasons for people being as they are, are not the same; the conditions, the circumstances are variable. What may apply in one case doesn't apply in another, you see.

 

Greene:

Mmm...most interesting.

 

Woods:

In Vietnam* they must have a terrific lot of Earthbound spirits there.

​

*The Vietnam war was headline news in 1966.

David:

Well, of course, the whole condition around there is obsessed with, uh...well, obsessed with spirits of all kinds; good, bad and indifferent. And the whole atmosphere is charged with forces which are very difficult, sometimes, to overcome.

Those of us who act in the capacity of helping souls over, those who act in the way of trying to lift them out of the conditions, sometimes come up against great problems, great difficulties. There are so many souls there, around there - earthbound souls too. The whole atmosphere around that part of the world... wherever there is intense hatred and fighting...

 

Greene:

Mmm...

 

David:

...and where there is all the 'evils', that you might say, of the Earth let loose - obviously the conditions are such, that it's very difficult at times to pierce. Of course, we do succeed obviously, and we are able to help many people, but at the same time, the conditions are appalling.

 

Greene:

You must feel pretty dreadful when you have to enter those conditions?

 

David:

Aye. Well, one... one, sort of, well... accustoms one's self to it. It's one's work and one loves to help people and, after all, the lower a person sinks, the greater is their need and the more help is given.

 

Greene:

Mmm...

 

David:

But of course, we cannot do very much until the individuals themselves begin to show a desire for assistance, a desire for guidance, a desire for help.

 

It's the same with you people. With all your work that you do, with the best of heart and the best of intention, you cannot make anyone accept something or re-awaken or awaken an interest in something, until they themselves are, more or less, ready for it.

 

Greene:

Quite right, yes.

 

David:

People have got to be co-operative. In other words, unless they're co-operative, there's not much you can do about it.

 

Greene:

[Unintelligible]

 

David:

Aye. You can... you can put the thing there, right under their nose, but if they don't want to see it, then there's nothing you can do about it.

 

Greene:

No. Quite right.

 

David:

You just can do only the best you can and try not to get too depressed in the process.

 

Greene: [Laughing]

 

David:

You're bound to get disillusionments and disappointments. But just think, that one person that you've helped and guided and made happier and given greater faith and confidence, then at least it's been worth it.

 

Greene:

Yes.

 

David:

In any case, you meet interesting people and you learn something about people anyway. Life is always interesting, there's no such thing as dullness where work of the spirit is concerned, believe me.

 

Greene:

Yes.

 

David:

Ah, I always feel that you do a remarkable work, considering the many obstacles that you have, one way and another. The tragedy of course, is that, often, the people that you would have thought would have been a... well, a great help, that would have co-operated with you, are often the people who... who put the obstacles up.

 

Greene:

Yes...

 

David:

We find that too. You'd be surprised. We get all sorts of obstacles put in our way. And some of the people that we have to contend with - if we hadn't got a sense of humour, I don't think we could carry on. Fortunately I have, myself, got a very good sense of humour, but 

we get some weird cases, one way and another.

 

You get some people who, really, you think to yourself, 'this man really is so stupid', you know. And people with so-called brains or intelligence when on Earth... highly cultured types too, some of them, that you would have thought would have been very quick to learn, very quick to take unto themselves new knowledge and experience, who'd be only too glad to be helped. Often they prove, sometimes anyway...uh, very difficult to help.

 

Greene:

They've probably got a one-track mind...

 

David:

Aye. The religious ones are always the worst. I think their prejudice is so strong and they are so concerned with themselves and their salvation and they're... they're so convinced that they're eventually going to be given a great reward. I think it's a great shock to them when they realise, that the only reward they're going to have, is what they've had to work darn hard to get; and it can't be just had for the sake of saying, 'I believe in this' and there it is. You've got to work for it. There's nothing given away.

 

Woods:

Here, here!

 

David:

Aye. It's a very interesting life. I'm very glad to know that I can do what I do. But the great joy of it is that one is living all the time, experiencing and meeting and encouraging and helping other people - and you're learning from them, as they are learning from you. There's not a dull moment.

 

Greene:

No.

 

David:

No-one need fear dying. It's the greatest thing that can happen to anyone. It would be terrible to go on and on and on in a material sense.

 

You know, sometimes it amazes me with some of these people who get scared, you know, of dying and just want to cling to the Earth. One feels sad and sorry for them, but you know, they just don't know, don't realise what a wonderful future, what a wonderful life there is, what excitement, what interest, what wonderful things can be done and achieved - the new interests that they can have, and they can do all the things here that they may have wanted to do and couldn't do on Earth...

 

And there's no old age, no aches, no pains; only a complete and absolute freedom of spirit and of mind - once you release yourselves from your prejudices and the old ideas that have held you back. Here, there are no limits... limitations, and you can go as high as you like.

 

But you have to go steady, you have to learn and feel your way, but there's never any feeling of frustration - if there is any frustration, it's that which you create within yourself. If your mind and your heart is open to receive truth and knowledge, then everything is there for you. It depends on you. You've got to make the effort...

 

Greene:

Yes, of course...

 

David:

...and you've got to do the digging, you know. You've got to... you've got to lay the foundations before you can build a house.

 

Greene:

David, what happens to people who have got the firm conviction that when they're... when they die or they don't exist any longer... now how do they... what sort of conditions do they come over in? What sort of conditions do they make for themselves?

 

David:

Well... depends. There again, we mustn't generalise, but there are some who are soon reawakened, you know, to new thought and new ideas and soon change their views and outlook. There are others who, perhaps, sleep, as you say - they're not sleeping in the sense that you call it sleeping...

​

Greene:

No.

 

David:

...but, in a kind of state where they have not a consciousness or awareness...uh, and gradually, of course, things begin to dawn upon them and they begin to realise things. It depends so much on the individual case, it depends on the reasons why they are or think they... as they do and the circumstances and background and all sorts of things.

 

Greene:

Mmm...

 

David:

All these things can affect and apply. But...um, invariably, most people anyway, if one talks in a general sense, most people when they leave your side, soon readjust themselves, soon realise the new life that's there and are conscious of all the conditions and the surroundings and the people that are help... helping them and the loved ones they have known in the past that are welcoming them over.

 

In other words, the average person has nothing to fear. Indeed, no one has anything to fear of course really, in a sense, in passing from your life to this. But, to some extent, it depends on the individual, as to the kind of life which they find and the kind of setting which they create. I mean, everyone creates... you see, that's another thing that people don't realise; to a great extent, indeed, it's true to say, that you create for yourselves accordingly.

 

If you think on the wrong lines and if you have many prejudices, if your mind and heart is closed to truth, then obviously, it's going to be more difficult; it's going to take longer, it's going to be harder for you to grasp things. But if you've got an open free mind, if you have knowledge - like you have - before you come here, it's a great asset, a great blessing and it will make all the difference to when you do come here... uh, there's none of the drawbacks that so many people have.

 

The worst drawbacks, I'm sure, I'm right in saying, are the very strong prejudiced ones. Have no prejudices, always have an open mind...

 

Greene:

Yes.

 

David:

...even with things you're not sure about... uh, just say, 'well I don't know' and keep it in your mind if you can. But, at the same time, never discard anything, never, sort of, say to yourself, 'well I don't want that',because there many be some value and truth in it somewhere.

 

The point is; strike out for the highest that you can achieve and if you fall a wee bit, at times, by the wayside, that's to be expected - at least you're having a wee rest [from] taking up the... the... the, you know, taking up the challenge again and struggling on.

 

Greene:

Yes.

 

David:

People have got to realise that there are many ways, there are many aspects, there are many roads. But the point is, that some are long and wearisome, and some are difficult and hard and there's very... very rare an easy path. But the truth... you... you learn a wee bit here and wee bit there and everyone can make some contribution. No one is so bad, no one is so good. There's every opportunity for every soul to find his own happiness and his own way, on different levels of consciousness.

 

We can't all be on the same level, on the same sphere, but we can all aspire - and it is through aspiration and making the attempt that we achieve what we do achieve. And I think, that to have the knowledge that you have, the realisation that you have, this is a great joy and a great blessing and you help many people - especially those who are sad and sorrowing and those who are afraid. This truth will take the fear out of life and the fear out of death and that's what really matters.

 

Anyway, it's always a joy to talk to people like you and I'll come again sometime, if I may.

 

Greene:

Oh thank you David.

 

Woods:

Thank you so much.

 

David:

Anyway, I must go now, but all the very best to you both now.

 

Greene:

Thank you David.

 

Woods:

Thank you.

 

David:

Goodbye and God bless now.

 

Greene:

Thank you for the lovely talk.

 

Woods:

Thank you very much.

 

Greene:

Bye-bye.

 

Mickey:

Bye-bye.

 

Greene:

Goodbye Mickey, thank you Mickey.

 

Woods:

Thank you Mickey, very much Mickey.

 

Greene:

See you on the 28th!